# Raising Boys Who Become Men People Actually Respect (with Andre Casson)

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 24 Mar 2026, 24 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/537b9c67-e76e-4500-88b4-b40f00bf46a7/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

What if the real problem isn’t “toxic masculinity”… but that we’ve stopped showing boys what healthy masculinity actually looks like? In this powerful conversation, Dr Justin Coulson sits down with educator Andre Casson to unpack what boys really need to thrive - and why so many are currently missing it. From values and discipline to role models and connection, this episode challenges the narrative around boys and offers a clearer, stronger path forward. If you’re raising a boy, this is essential listening. KEY POINTS • Why the “toxic masculinity” conversation is missing the mark • The 5 core values that shape strong, grounded young men • How schools and parents must work together (not separately) • The hidden reason boys disengage - and how to turn it around • Why discipline and doing hard things builds self-worth • The critical role of male role models and peer influence • How to raise boys who make others feel safer and stronger QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “Healthy men help the people around them feel safer and stronger.” RESOURCES MENTIONED • Boys: Building Strong Young Men from the Inside Out by Dr. Justin Coulson • Keeping Safe Child Protection Curriculum • Happy Families website & parenting resources ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS • Create regular, low-pressure moments for conversation (car rides are gold) • Model your values consistently - don’t just talk about them • Encourage your son to do hard things (this builds real confidence) • Show up and engage with your child’s school and community • Surround your son with positive male role models • Focus on who your son is becoming - not just what he achieves See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: As you probably know, I have a book coming out
[0:07] Speaker 1: about raising boys in the next couple of months. Sometime
[0:10] Speaker 1: in June. HarperCollins and ABC Books are going to be
[0:13] Speaker 1: releasing Boys, building strong young men from the inside out.
[0:17] Speaker 1: The conversation around masculinity is continually challenging. It keeps everybody
[0:22] Speaker 1: on their toes and people have strong opinions about what
[0:26] Speaker 1: it is to be a man and how we should
[0:27] Speaker 1: be raising our boys. So this has been a real challenge.
[0:30] Speaker 1: Over the next couple of months. On the podcast, I'm
[0:32] Speaker 1: looking forward to showcasing and highlighting people in this country
[0:36] Speaker 1: who are doing a great job working with boys and
[0:39] Speaker 1: young men to help to create the conditions for the
[0:44] Speaker 1: boys to do the inner work, to develop character, to
[0:46] Speaker 1: become the best versions of themselves that they can, and
[0:49] Speaker 1: to understand what it is to be a healthy man.
[0:53] Speaker 1: Today on the podcast, Andre Cassen, the headmaster of Brisbane
[0:57] Speaker 1: Boys College, talk about his deep seated passion for developing
[1:04] Speaker 1: young men who have a strong sense of self and
[1:07] Speaker 1: are committed to affecting positive change in the world. If
[1:11] Speaker 1: you're raising a young man, Today's episode is one you
[1:14] Speaker 1: don't want to miss. Andre Cassen. Next stay with US. Hello,
[1:21] Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, where you get real
[1:22] Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most downloaded
[1:26] Speaker 1: parenting podcast. My name's Doffs. Justin Colson, the author of
[1:29] Speaker 1: I've Forgotten how Many Books? Ten eleven twelve books about
[1:32] Speaker 1: raising happy Families, the host of Chanlen Lynds hit TV
[1:36] Speaker 1: show Parental Guidance, Dad to six of my own children,
[1:39] Speaker 1: and today I'm delighted to share the podcast with Andre Cassen.
[1:43] Speaker 1: Andrea is the headmaster of the independent day school and
[1:46] Speaker 1: boarding school, Brisbane Boys College, locally known as BBC. Andre
[1:51] Speaker 1: has worked globally with young men and for more than
[1:56] Speaker 1: three decades has held senior positions in education here in
[2:00] Speaker 1: Australia and in Asia, where he's developed a leadership phiosophy
[2:03] Speaker 1: granted in the belief that education should forge character as
[2:05] Speaker 1: much as it shapes intellect. There's an idea that I
[2:08] Speaker 1: don't hear enough. Once upon a time, it was a
[2:11] Speaker 1: staple of what education was supposed to be a couple
[2:13] Speaker 1: of centuries ago. Since twenty twenty two, he's served as
[2:17] Speaker 1: the tenth head of Brisbane Boys College to a diverse
[2:21] Speaker 1: student body about fourteen hundred young men at the school
[2:23] Speaker 1: from prep to year twelve, and it has an excellent,
[2:27] Speaker 1: excellent reputation in a GPS environment focused on raising and
[2:32] Speaker 1: developing well rounded, social, engaged members of the community. It's
[2:35] Speaker 1: a long intro, Andre, but I think that with the
[2:37] Speaker 1: work that you've done both here in Australia and across
[2:40] Speaker 1: the region, that it needs to be said. Thanks for
[2:43] Speaker 1: joining me and having this conversation about raising boys today.
[2:45] Speaker 2: Of course, and thank you so much for the opportunity
[2:47] Speaker 2: to have this discussion, which I think is a very
[2:50] Speaker 2: important one about how we can create good men that
[2:53] Speaker 2: are going to carry our country in our world forward,
[2:56] Speaker 2: no matter what the challenges that might lay head. So
[2:58] Speaker 2: I'm delighted to have this chance to Andre.
[3:01] Speaker 1: A little while ago, as I was putting the fourteenth
[3:04] Speaker 1: set of finishing touches on my Boy's book, I rewrote
[3:09] Speaker 1: the paragraph around what toxic masculinity is and why I
[3:12] Speaker 1: really generally refuse to discuss it or engage with the concept. However,
[3:18] Speaker 1: it just keeps on coming up. When you look at
[3:22] Speaker 1: these fourteen hundred young men that are working their way
[3:26] Speaker 1: through BBC, what do you do? How do you reposition
[3:29] Speaker 1: this narrative around toxic masculinity and shift it towards something
[3:32] Speaker 1: more positive and healthy. What's your approach on this, Well.
[3:35] Speaker 2: Look, I think it's something that we have an immense
[3:38] Speaker 2: responsibility being a prominent boys score here in Brisbane, we
[3:43] Speaker 2: have a responsibility to create good men, as we call
[3:46] Speaker 2: it here at BBC, gentlemen of honor that are going
[3:50] Speaker 2: to embrace all the wonderful things it comes about being
[3:53] Speaker 2: a man and being a boy. But to make sure
[3:56] Speaker 2: we do that in an appropriate way that we support
[4:00] Speaker 2: not only the young men in our care but the
[4:02] Speaker 2: broader society. So what we try and do is that
[4:06] Speaker 2: we firstly we try and be intentional and what we
[4:08] Speaker 2: do we've engaged with a specific curriculum called the Keeping
[4:12] Speaker 2: Safe Child Protection Curriculum that works from prep all the
[4:16] Speaker 2: way through the year twelve, and it engages our young
[4:19] Speaker 2: men in conversations about issues like consent, about their changing
[4:25] Speaker 2: bodies and how that they can prepare for relationships beyond school.
[4:29] Speaker 2: It's developmentally appropriate, so it might be a conversation about
[4:33] Speaker 2: my private parts in prep all the way through to
[4:37] Speaker 2: a conversation about what is consent and what does that
[4:41] Speaker 2: look like in our rapidly changing world. The second thing
[4:44] Speaker 2: we really try and work on is to make sure
[4:46] Speaker 2: we've got good people surrounding our boys. We've got amazing
[4:50] Speaker 2: staff that are here to be passionate to support and
[4:53] Speaker 2: actors role models. Young men need role models that are
[4:56] Speaker 2: going to support them in their journey. That old adage,
[4:59] Speaker 2: if we can't see, we can't be it, and that's
[5:01] Speaker 2: so important the older students. Modeling those behavior with our
[5:05] Speaker 2: youngest students absolutely crucial, and of course engaging with our parents.
[5:10] Speaker 3: I caught the Holy trinity.
[5:11] Speaker 2: When our parents and our schools work together with the
[5:14] Speaker 2: young men at the top, we.
[5:15] Speaker 3: Achieve so much more.
[5:17] Speaker 2: We're a big growing school here at BBC, and it's
[5:19] Speaker 2: all about pulling that or in that synchronous position in
[5:23] Speaker 2: the same direction.
[5:24] Speaker 3: We're going to achieve so much for that young.
[5:26] Speaker 1: Man, Andrea, I'd love to frame the next question politely,
[5:29] Speaker 1: but when I talk to parents, they never say it politely.
[5:33] Speaker 1: They're frustrated, especially the way that and recognizing that the
[5:38] Speaker 1: media may be responsible at least in part for the narrative,
[5:41] Speaker 1: but they are frustrated with the continual stories that show
[5:44] Speaker 1: up in the media about badly behaved boys in private
[5:47] Speaker 1: schools specifically, we hear about it usually around year twelve
[5:51] Speaker 1: markup day. But you've got stories that have been hanging
[5:54] Speaker 1: around for years, like the Saint Kevin's Boys in two
[5:56] Speaker 1: rac with the awful chant on the tram, and some
[5:59] Speaker 1: of the things have been over the last few years.
[6:01] Speaker 1: We just hear these stories again and again and again.
[6:03] Speaker 1: How to respond to this challenge. I know that these
[6:06] Speaker 1: issues arise in every school, and certainly the media loves
[6:10] Speaker 1: the narrative of the elite schools. But surely when schools
[6:14] Speaker 1: like yours are implementing such great programs, when they have
[6:18] Speaker 1: so many resources, surely the expectation should be higher. And
[6:24] Speaker 1: we keep on finding ourselves in these awful holes, these
[6:27] Speaker 1: quagmires of abhorrent behavior.
[6:30] Speaker 2: Doctor Gilson, You've hit the point there. We have the
[6:35] Speaker 2: resources and the responsibility to be better. We talk about
[6:39] Speaker 2: that a lot with our boys, about being better. But
[6:43] Speaker 2: you can't think for one moment that we're not going
[6:46] Speaker 2: to slip up. That is a reality of the human condition.
[6:50] Speaker 2: What we need to do is to create an environment
[6:53] Speaker 2: where our boys understand what are the right decisions, to
[6:58] Speaker 2: have the courage to make those correct, correct choices when
[7:04] Speaker 2: they are put in those difficult peer group situations, and then, unfortunately,
[7:08] Speaker 2: if things do go wrong, what do we do to
[7:11] Speaker 2: bring the behavior back to what we want? And look,
[7:15] Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here for one moment and
[7:17] Speaker 2: say that we're perfect here at BBC. We're certainly not,
[7:19] Speaker 2: and we've had our challenges.
[7:20] Speaker 3: In the past.
[7:22] Speaker 2: But what we will always try and do is be
[7:25] Speaker 2: the best at getting better. And that works so much
[7:27] Speaker 2: better when you are clear and explicit in what you're
[7:30] Speaker 2: trying to achieve as a school. And as I mentioned before,
[7:33] Speaker 2: if we bring our parents along in that journey, because
[7:37] Speaker 2: the raising of a young man can never just be
[7:40] Speaker 2: what happens at home, nor can it just be what
[7:43] Speaker 2: happens in the school. If we're working together, we are
[7:47] Speaker 2: able to succeed so much more. I'd be curious, I
[7:49] Speaker 2: mean mean, is that what you find in your work.
[7:52] Speaker 1: The more parents are engaged in their children's lives, the
[7:55] Speaker 1: more that those children are likely to internal life the
[8:00] Speaker 1: values that we're trying to trying to instill. The major
[8:04] Speaker 1: thing that I really try to push is that there's
[8:07] Speaker 1: an internalization or an integration or an endorsement. Endorsement would
[8:10] Speaker 1: be the word that I've really focused on a lot
[8:12] Speaker 1: lately an endorsement of values. So it's one thing for
[8:16] Speaker 1: us to stand up at the lectern and preach and
[8:21] Speaker 1: pound it and say this is the expectation, this is
[8:23] Speaker 1: what you need to be doing. But when we can
[8:25] Speaker 1: sit with these young men and engage with them and
[8:29] Speaker 1: they can internalize the ideas that they can discuss them
[8:32] Speaker 1: and buy into them, I've just found that makes such
[8:35] Speaker 1: a difference. And so I work with teachers and with
[8:38] Speaker 1: parents on doing that. And I agree with you that
[8:40] Speaker 1: three pronged approach where you've got parents and teachers working
[8:43] Speaker 1: with not doing too and young men they sort of
[8:46] Speaker 1: they come along with the current three legs on a stool.
[8:50] Speaker 1: It just seems to make a difference. But creating that
[8:53] Speaker 1: endorsement is a real challenge. You are speaking with principles
[8:57] Speaker 1: across the education sector, talking with principles at the biggest
[9:01] Speaker 1: private schools and the most well resourced schools in the country.
[9:04] Speaker 1: But no doubt you also have the opportunity to engage
[9:07] Speaker 1: with principles and school leaders in every context. What are
[9:13] Speaker 1: they telling you in terms of the challenges that they're
[9:16] Speaker 1: faced with when it comes to young men in a
[9:19] Speaker 1: school context.
[9:22] Speaker 2: Look, I think the challenges are a threefold. There is
[9:28] Speaker 2: the pervasive and often very negative aspect of the social
[9:34] Speaker 2: media and the messages that have been shared out there.
[9:39] Speaker 2: You know, I can jump a line and give you
[9:41] Speaker 2: whatever opinion on whatever I like, And unfortunately some of
[9:45] Speaker 2: the people that are promoted quite highly on social media
[9:49] Speaker 2: are getting the attention. The more controversial you are, the
[9:52] Speaker 2: more interesting you get. So that's the big challenge people
[9:55] Speaker 2: are talking about. Secondly, the challenge I think is to
[10:00] Speaker 2: how we best engage with our parents. Just last week
[10:05] Speaker 2: we had a session with fathers and our secondary boys
[10:10] Speaker 2: and we started with a session at Sartin. I love
[10:12] Speaker 2: what you said about values. The values have to be
[10:16] Speaker 2: the bedrock. It cannot be platitudes that you stand up
[10:19] Speaker 2: at the pulpit and bash the polpet.
[10:21] Speaker 3: It cannot be.
[10:23] Speaker 2: The boys very very quickly will work out whether you're
[10:28] Speaker 2: not being authentic. I almost said a more creative way
[10:31] Speaker 2: of describing that there, but they'll know you're not being authentic.
[10:35] Speaker 2: You need to live those values and that needs to
[10:37] Speaker 2: be in everything you do. So that started the session.
[10:40] Speaker 2: But then the boys went down to our middle school
[10:43] Speaker 2: area and the sessions were led by our senior boys.
[10:48] Speaker 2: They acted as moderately a year eleven boys.
[10:50] Speaker 1: That's powerful, right, because you've got these you've got these
[10:53] Speaker 1: young men who are actually being models to the even
[10:55] Speaker 1: younger men. Absolutely, and that creates the internalization because they're
[10:59] Speaker 1: the one that are doing the teaching. That's to me,
[11:02] Speaker 1: that's the what's the words, that's the rainbows and unicorn solution,
[11:06] Speaker 1: that's the party pop is going off in my brain
[11:08] Speaker 1: right now, because once the boys start doing the teaching,
[11:11] Speaker 1: there's just a different level of internalization.
[11:13] Speaker 2: And look, we know that boys interact differently, whether they
[11:18] Speaker 2: say boys interact side by side.
[11:22] Speaker 3: One of the best conversations I have with my son, he.
[11:25] Speaker 2: Was a swimmer before he left off to university this year,
[11:29] Speaker 2: and on the way to swimming training, when he sat
[11:31] Speaker 2: next to me, we would have the most deep conversations.
[11:34] Speaker 2: And so after that evening, when dads are driving home
[11:37] Speaker 2: with their sons, well, what about Jackson?
[11:40] Speaker 3: What about the way he led?
[11:42] Speaker 2: And our parents are able to see this is where
[11:45] Speaker 2: we're going with the previous education. So that's the other
[11:48] Speaker 2: thing that I know, our other principle talking about how
[11:51] Speaker 2: do we best engage with our families to get them
[11:54] Speaker 2: involved and align with our values that we're trying to spouse.
[11:58] Speaker 1: Ther Parent engagement is an ongoing chat challenge in schools
[12:01] Speaker 1: around the country. It's something that Principles asked me about
[12:03] Speaker 1: more than almost anything at all. Parents, if you're listening
[12:06] Speaker 1: to this and wondering what you can do for your children,
[12:09] Speaker 1: please be engaged and show up when the school's doing stuff,
[12:12] Speaker 1: because it is actually they help you. Andre you are
[12:16] Speaker 1: doing better than me. With the swimming conversations. My parents
[12:19] Speaker 1: used to wake up at four point thirty to drive
[12:21] Speaker 1: me to swimming lessons so that I could be in
[12:23] Speaker 1: the pool at five am. And I was in a
[12:25] Speaker 1: squad and was a pretty good swim when I was
[12:28] Speaker 1: a kid. And I can tell you right now that
[12:29] Speaker 1: I did not open my mouth and say a word
[12:32] Speaker 1: to my parents. We sat in silence and drove to
[12:35] Speaker 1: those swimming lessons with nothing but seething resentment under my
[12:40] Speaker 1: skin because I was awake at that hour, so I
[12:41] Speaker 1: had to go swimming my joy I wasn't choosing to
[12:44] Speaker 1: do it. After the break, I want to ask you,
[12:47] Speaker 1: how do you define healthy masculinity. I've been thinking about
[12:49] Speaker 1: this deeply for the last three years as I've been
[12:51] Speaker 1: writing this book about raising boys, and I've come up
[12:53] Speaker 1: with a definition that I think is productive and useful
[12:57] Speaker 1: and relevant. It's something that boys and their parents can
[13:01] Speaker 1: hold on to. But I'd love to know how you
[13:02] Speaker 1: define healthy masculinity. I just want to ask you if
[13:06] Speaker 1: we wanted our children to engage more in education, particularly
[13:09] Speaker 1: our boys, given that the data shows that boys are
[13:13] Speaker 1: checking out when it comes to academics vastly, at vastly
[13:17] Speaker 1: higher rates than our girls. Really want to get your
[13:19] Speaker 1: opinion on how we can help boys to engage with
[13:22] Speaker 1: academic content and make more out of their lives educationally.
[13:26] Speaker 1: That and more coming up on the podcast We're Back.
[13:36] Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. My name's doctor Justin Colson.
[13:39] Speaker 1: I'm with Andre Cassen, who is the principal of Brisbane
[13:41] Speaker 1: Boys College. Andrea. As I struggled to get my head
[13:45] Speaker 1: around the idea of writing a book about raising boys,
[13:48] Speaker 1: I knew that the first thing that I had to
[13:49] Speaker 1: do was come up with a workable definition of healthy
[13:52] Speaker 1: masculinity to counter the constant conversation around where we began
[13:57] Speaker 1: this discussion today, toxic masculinity. What do you teach when
[14:01] Speaker 1: it comes to helping boys to understand what it is
[14:04] Speaker 1: to be a healthy man.
[14:05] Speaker 2: Look, and that's a great question, and please doctors, and
[14:09] Speaker 2: you are far more the expert than me, so I'm
[14:12] Speaker 2: just giving you my experience through my journey in education.
[14:16] Speaker 2: For us at BBC, in order to raise good men,
[14:21] Speaker 2: I've mentioned before and we've shared before, it needs to
[14:24] Speaker 2: be based on very very clear values and principles and
[14:27] Speaker 2: these are non negotiable. We need to make sure that
[14:31] Speaker 2: we are respectful. We call it honor here at BBC.
[14:35] Speaker 2: We need to make sure that and boys love their connections,
[14:39] Speaker 2: whatever their values is.
[14:40] Speaker 3: Community.
[14:41] Speaker 2: We have BBC Boys called Brotherhood, but we're trying to
[14:44] Speaker 2: be more inclusive of our entire community. We want our
[14:48] Speaker 2: boys to aspire, and this is one of the things
[14:51] Speaker 2: with young men. They want to try new things and
[14:55] Speaker 2: be more than they thought possible, to look above the
[14:58] Speaker 2: parapet and see what might be possible. We want to
[15:02] Speaker 2: celebrate achievement. I think the idea of everyone gets surprised
[15:11] Speaker 2: and it's okay to say, actually, you're really good at that.
[15:14] Speaker 2: But what we say at BBC that there's more than
[15:16] Speaker 2: one way to thrive. So you might be academic, let's
[15:19] Speaker 2: celebrate that. You might be brilliant playing the bagpipes and
[15:22] Speaker 2: playing at the military tattoo, then let's celebrate that. And
[15:27] Speaker 2: so that to me, which is really important. And the
[15:29] Speaker 2: last aspect is and I spoke about before, not knowledge.
[15:32] Speaker 3: It's wisdom.
[15:33] Speaker 2: It's how do we use what we know to be
[15:36] Speaker 2: able to apply that to success. So if we work
[15:40] Speaker 2: on those values, then we create young men that are
[15:44] Speaker 2: happy to embrace who they are and have the courage
[15:49] Speaker 2: to call out behaviors that are counter to what they believe.
[15:54] Speaker 3: And I think that's so important.
[15:56] Speaker 2: We're very happy to tell you whether I'm a tragic
[15:59] Speaker 2: westc Egal supporter, and I'll still argue Black and Blue
[16:02] Speaker 2: why that's a great football team. But then the more
[16:05] Speaker 2: important conversations, do I have the courage to have those
[16:08] Speaker 2: difficult conversation? And that's what we want to create in
[16:10] Speaker 2: BBC Boys. And the last piece is we want to
[16:13] Speaker 2: create men that are looking to make a difference for good,
[16:16] Speaker 2: to find those opportunities where they can insert themselves and
[16:20] Speaker 2: make the world a better place. And our college has
[16:24] Speaker 2: been around for one hundred and twenty four years.
[16:26] Speaker 3: We've built.
[16:27] Speaker 2: Anything that I've done is because I've stood on the
[16:29] Speaker 2: shoulders of giants. This has been happening for a long
[16:31] Speaker 2: time at BBC and I'm immensely proud of that heritage.
[16:34] Speaker 1: Yeah. Really inspired by a couple of those things. Specifically,
[16:39] Speaker 1: the concept of community and brotherhood is something that is
[16:44] Speaker 1: I think lacking for too many of our young men,
[16:46] Speaker 1: and hence the wellbeing challenges. But the one that I
[16:50] Speaker 1: really want to zero win on actually as two that
[16:52] Speaker 1: I want to zero in on here. The first is
[16:54] Speaker 1: this idea of aspiration and achievement. I was having a
[16:57] Speaker 1: conversation in regional New South Wales. It's some year nine
[17:00] Speaker 1: and ten students just around about a month ago, really
[17:05] Speaker 1: really challenged community, really difficult area to be growing up.
[17:09] Speaker 1: The kids have disengaged, they've checked out. The teachers have
[17:13] Speaker 1: as well in the particular school that I was in,
[17:16] Speaker 1: and it was a really really tough spot to be.
[17:20] Speaker 1: As we talked, I asked them how they feel when
[17:22] Speaker 1: they spend the day playing Fortnite or Roadblocks or Minecraft,
[17:25] Speaker 1: or when they've scrolled TikTok for two hours, and they
[17:28] Speaker 1: all said lousy. I don't feel very good. And I said, well,
[17:33] Speaker 1: why is that? And as we bounce the ideas around
[17:36] Speaker 1: a little bit. What the students eventually got to was,
[17:39] Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything that is really worthy of my
[17:43] Speaker 1: time and my life, and therefore, if I'm not going
[17:45] Speaker 1: to do something that's worthy of my time in my life,
[17:47] Speaker 1: I'm not going to feel like I'm worthy because i
[17:51] Speaker 1: haven't done something like. The discipline that's required to get
[17:57] Speaker 1: hard things done is the everything that creates the self
[18:01] Speaker 1: respect that we need so that we can feel like
[18:03] Speaker 1: we've achieved. And as we discussed that, there was just
[18:06] Speaker 1: this I watched them sit up taller and straighter as
[18:09] Speaker 1: they realized, Oh, you're doing hard things. Aspiring to do
[18:12] Speaker 1: something that is uncomfortable is going to make me feel
[18:14] Speaker 1: like I'm doing something that's worthy and worthwhile, and then
[18:17] Speaker 1: I will feel worthy and respectable. It was just a
[18:20] Speaker 1: really lovely moment to see these students who don't really
[18:26] Speaker 1: want to typically do those things, go no, this is worthwhile.
[18:29] Speaker 1: The other thing that you've highlighted is this idea of
[18:32] Speaker 1: helping them to make a difference for good that aligns
[18:35] Speaker 1: really closely with the definition of masculinity that I've put
[18:37] Speaker 1: into my book Boys. I've defined a healthy man as
[18:43] Speaker 1: one who helps those around him feel safer and stronger,
[18:48] Speaker 1: not just feel, but be safer and stronger. This ability.
[18:53] Speaker 1: I had a conversation with a woman, probably about forty
[18:57] Speaker 1: two years old. She'd been divorced for five or six years.
[19:01] Speaker 1: We were colleagues, We knew each other reasonably well. This
[19:03] Speaker 1: was just a couple of years ago, and it wasn't
[19:05] Speaker 1: inappropriate for me to ask a personal question. So I
[19:08] Speaker 1: said to her, are you dating again? Are you looking around?
[19:11] Speaker 1: Do you plan on finding somebody else's missed ride out
[19:14] Speaker 1: there for you? And she said no, I have no
[19:18] Speaker 1: interest in trying to find a guy. I don't think
[19:22] Speaker 1: that there is any man out there who is going
[19:26] Speaker 1: to show up in my orbit, who is going to
[19:28] Speaker 1: be a bonus in my life. This idea of being
[19:32] Speaker 1: a bonus has really struck with me. She basically said,
[19:35] Speaker 1: if I were to repartner and remarry whoever I end
[19:39] Speaker 1: up with, I'm going to be giving more to this
[19:42] Speaker 1: relationship than they are. Not that it's transactional, but I'll
[19:44] Speaker 1: be the one who is doing everything. That's just what
[19:47] Speaker 1: my experience with men has been. They're takers, they're not givers.
[19:50] Speaker 1: They're not a bonus. There's no surplus value here, which
[19:53] Speaker 1: is a riff on Richard Reeves in his Book of
[19:56] Speaker 1: Boys and Men, and I'd just thought, what a difference
[19:59] Speaker 1: it would be, what a difference it would make in
[20:01] Speaker 1: the world if we could raise our young men with
[20:04] Speaker 1: just this. It's so easy, it's so easy to remember.
[20:07] Speaker 1: Can you help the people around you to feel and
[20:09] Speaker 1: be safer and stronger? And that feels like that aligns
[20:12] Speaker 1: really neatly with the values that you're describing. Safe and strong,
[20:16] Speaker 1: difference for good, having the wisdom to know how to
[20:18] Speaker 1: act in different situations, achieving, aspiring, honor, powerful values that
[20:24] Speaker 1: grow great men.
[20:26] Speaker 3: Well, thank you. And what I love is that.
[20:30] Speaker 2: These values were derived from our community.
[20:36] Speaker 3: They weren't top down.
[20:38] Speaker 2: We work with our students, we work with our parents,
[20:41] Speaker 2: we work with our old boys, work their stuff, obviously,
[20:44] Speaker 2: and what does it mean to be a good man
[20:48] Speaker 2: in a BBC context? I love your definition to feel safer?
[20:56] Speaker 2: I just I think that's Rellian. I'll give you the
[21:00] Speaker 2: the I'll quote give the quote to you, but I'm
[21:02] Speaker 2: going to use that absolutely brilliant.
[21:05] Speaker 3: I do hope that our young men, when they are.
[21:08] Speaker 2: Out in society, are make people feel safer, are making
[21:10] Speaker 2: people feel better and Hopefully your friends will find someone
[21:14] Speaker 2: like that, because it's sad to hear that they feel
[21:16] Speaker 2: that they're not going to get something from their relationship
[21:19] Speaker 2: that is disappointing.
[21:20] Speaker 3: Hopefully the BBC boy that won't be the case. Yeah.
[21:23] Speaker 1: Absolutely, It's astonishing how many women have told and girls
[21:26] Speaker 1: have told me that as they've found out that I'm
[21:28] Speaker 1: writing a book about boys. It's not a one off. Unfortunately,
[21:31] Speaker 1: it seems to be an increasing attitude towards young men
[21:37] Speaker 1: and adult men in our community. Our time is a
[21:40] Speaker 1: little bit done. I've really enjoyed the chat. Andre. I
[21:42] Speaker 1: feel like you and I could probably sit and talk
[21:44] Speaker 1: for several hours about what it is to raise great boys.
[21:48] Speaker 1: Let me ask you one last question. Your a dad, yourself,
[21:50] Speaker 1: you've got two two teenagers. Yes, if there was one
[21:56] Speaker 1: piece of advice that you would leave parents who are
[22:00] Speaker 1: raising adolescent boys right now or tween boys right now,
[22:04] Speaker 1: and they just want to raise great kids, the kids
[22:07] Speaker 1: that are only going to show up in the paper
[22:09] Speaker 1: for excellence, for achievement, for outstanding conduct and doing something wonderful,
[22:16] Speaker 1: what would you say to them if they were really
[22:19] Speaker 1: really focused on helping those young men to be the
[22:21] Speaker 1: best versions of themselves that they could be.
[22:24] Speaker 3: I think, and I spent a lot of time ruminating
[22:27] Speaker 3: on this.
[22:29] Speaker 2: It is maintaining that opportunity for conversations with your sons.
[22:37] Speaker 3: You need to live and truly live.
[22:41] Speaker 2: In everything you do the values that you think are important.
[22:44] Speaker 2: But your son, no matter what they are struggling with.
[22:47] Speaker 2: It might be a maths problem, it might be non
[22:50] Speaker 2: selection in a rugby team, it might be a relationship
[22:55] Speaker 2: with a girl, or it might be something deeper about sexuality.
[22:59] Speaker 3: And choices that they're making.
[23:01] Speaker 2: You need to create that environment where no matter what
[23:05] Speaker 2: their issue is, they can engage with you and feel comfortable.
[23:11] Speaker 2: And more often than not, it's on this way of swimming,
[23:14] Speaker 2: training or watching the West Coast Eagles get beaten again
[23:18] Speaker 2: that those conversations will happen. And I just think that
[23:21] Speaker 2: is the greatest gift that we can give as parents
[23:23] Speaker 2: to our boys.
[23:24] Speaker 1: Yeah, the power of connection. That's phenomenal anddre It's been
[23:27] Speaker 1: a treat to talk to you. Thanks for sharing your
[23:28] Speaker 1: ideas about masculinity about raising great boys. Goodluck this year
[23:32] Speaker 1: with the Eagles. I don't like your chances, but no
[23:36] Speaker 1: wish you well anyway. And what a treat to have
[23:39] Speaker 1: you on the podcast today.
[23:40] Speaker 2: Thank you, Doc calls has been an absolute pleasure. I
[23:42] Speaker 2: wish you well and good luck with your book.
[23:44] Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
[23:47] Speaker 1: Bridge MEDIAMM Hammonds provides our additional support. For more info
[23:50] Speaker 1: about things we've talked about, check the show notes and
[23:52] Speaker 1: everything that Andre has said about those values will be
[23:55] Speaker 1: there for you and if you'd like to join the
[23:56] Speaker 1: wait list for the Boy's Book, which will be added
[23:59] Speaker 1: in just a couple of months now, visit Happy Families
[24:01] Speaker 1: dot com dot au m HMM

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