# Gaming & Neurodivergence: How to Make Gaming Healthier at Home \[with Andrew Kinch\]

An episode of [Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1082244480), 1 Sep 2026, 17 min.

Audio: https://mgln.ai/e/187/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/fa326977-3de5-4283-9b8b-af3500c58607/b69b2795-5503-4de1-ac91-af460017906e/32679afa-87fb-4878-a068-b4ac001d7b1b/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=a05f1702-0c0e-4b0f-8014-af460017907c

Gaming can be a source of connection, competence and joy, especially for neurodivergent kids. But when switching off leads to arguments, anxiety or explosive behaviour, parents need more than another screen-time rule. Justin speaks with Game Aware founder Andrew Kinch about why some kids are drawn so strongly to gaming, how neurodivergence can shape that relationship, and what parents can do when gaming starts crowding out sleep, school, movement and family life. They unpack the difference between gaming for enjoyment and gaming for escape, why timers can make transitions harder, and how understanding your child's favourite game could reduce conflict at home. KEY POINTS: • Why gaming and general screen time aren't the same thing • The particular role gaming can play for neurodivergent kids • How gaming meets needs for competence, autonomy and connection • Why using games to escape stress, bullying, anxiety or other struggles can become problematic • Why countdown timers can increase anxiety around switching off • How a stopwatch can encourage kids to practise self-regulation • The value of a calming "buffer" activity after gaming • Why parents should spend time learning how their child's favourite game actually works • How understanding what your child gets from gaming can change the conversation at home QUOTE OF THE EPISODE: "What job is the game doing for them?" Andrew Kinch RESOURCES MENTIONED: • Game Aware Activity Finder and family support • Self-Determination Theory • Johann Hari's work on addiction and connection ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS: • Get curious about what gaming gives your child before focusing on how long they're playing. • Notice whether they're gaming for fun and connection or using it to escape something difficult. • Try replacing a countdown timer with a stopwatch that helps them monitor their own gaming time. • Plan something enjoyable or calming for immediately after gaming rather than expecting an abrupt switch into chores or family demands. • Sit beside your child and learn their game. Understand what they're trying to achieve, when a round ends and why stopping halfway through can feel so frustrating. • If gaming is seriously affecting sleep, school, relationships, physical activity or safety at home, seek specialised support. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:05] Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. If you're a
[0:07] Speaker 1: parent who has battled screens, specifically gaming, if you say
[0:12] Speaker 1: to your child it's time to get off now, and
[0:14] Speaker 1: they say, just one more round, just five more minutes.
[0:17] Speaker 1: Not yet, everyone's still on. I got to stay out
[0:19] Speaker 1: for another however much longer, and you kind of put
[0:22] Speaker 1: your head in your hands and think, how many more
[0:23] Speaker 1: years of this do I need to go through? Maybe
[0:26] Speaker 1: you've even had that experience of a game control, of
[0:29] Speaker 1: sailing across the room, when you've put your foot down
[0:31] Speaker 1: and said, no, it's enough, it's time for dinner. We're
[0:34] Speaker 1: going to eat dinner together as a family. In the
[0:36] Speaker 1: worst cases, I've heard of people experiencing violence in the
[0:40] Speaker 1: home because a son or a daughter hasn't wanted to
[0:43] Speaker 1: stop gaming. Gaming can be a source of great joy,
[0:46] Speaker 1: but it can also be a source of tremendous conflict
[0:48] Speaker 1: and challenge, with so much of gaming happening in unhealthy ways.
[0:54] Speaker 1: Today on the Happy Families Podcast, we talk about unhealthy
[0:57] Speaker 1: versus healthy gaming. We talk about gaming addiction and some
[1:00] Speaker 1: tips that parents can use to help them keep gaming
[1:03] Speaker 1: healthy at home and prevent problems. My guest today from
[1:07] Speaker 1: Game Aware is Andrew Kinch, game aware founder. I'll tell
[1:12] Speaker 1: you about him and get into this conversation right after this. Hello,
[1:19] Speaker 1: and welcome to the Happy Family Podcasts, where you get
[1:20] Speaker 1: real parenting solutions every single day. It's Australia's most downloaded
[1:23] Speaker 1: parenting podcast. My name's doctor Justin Coulson. I'm joined today
[1:27] Speaker 1: by Andrew Kinch, founder of game Aware. Andrew was a
[1:30] Speaker 1: competitive and casual gamer for thirty years, also a teacher
[1:33] Speaker 1: of health and wellbeing for fifteen and a dad to
[1:36] Speaker 1: two kids, and he runs game Aware. Game Aware Well,
[1:42] Speaker 1: actually I'm not going to tell you much about it.
[1:43] Speaker 1: I'm going to let Andrew do most of that, but
[1:45] Speaker 1: let's just say it's about healthy screen limits and ironically
[1:51] Speaker 1: spending time in games to make gaming healthier. Andrew, the
[1:55] Speaker 1: main reason I've got you on the podcast today is
[1:57] Speaker 1: because I've had a couple of emails from people who
[1:58] Speaker 1: have told me that your work has dramatically turned things
[2:02] Speaker 1: around for their family. It's made an an almost difference.
[2:04] Speaker 1: So thank you for being here.
[2:06] Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much for having me, and that's
[2:08] Speaker 2: great to hear. To retry our best.
[2:10] Speaker 1: Let's kick straight into this. What is the biggest source
[2:14] Speaker 1: of pain when it comes to games in families.
[2:17] Speaker 2: Oh man, I would say the conflict at home is
[2:21] Speaker 2: certainly something that we hear about sort of the most.
[2:25] Speaker 2: And a lot of the families that reach out to
[2:26] Speaker 2: us are saying that they don't mind the gaming, they
[2:29] Speaker 2: just want it to be in balance, right. They want
[2:31] Speaker 2: to make sure that they're not sacrificing their sleep or
[2:35] Speaker 2: school or other activities or just physical activity in general
[2:39] Speaker 2: to be on the screen and gaming all the time.
[2:41] Speaker 2: And a lot of the time sparents are confusing general
[2:45] Speaker 2: screen time with gaming, and sure they're related, but they
[2:48] Speaker 2: are distinct. You know, there are certain needs that we're
[2:51] Speaker 2: definitely trying to meet when we're playing video games, and
[2:55] Speaker 2: it really depends on the game that they're playing as well.
[2:57] Speaker 2: So the biggest concern is the pushback, you know, the
[3:01] Speaker 2: burning desire to play when parents are saying that's been enough.
[3:05] Speaker 1: Okay, I want to break that down shortly, but let's
[3:08] Speaker 1: go back a bit too. You just said there's a
[3:10] Speaker 1: distinction between screen time and gaming, and I'm often talking
[3:14] Speaker 1: about this when I'm talking to parents, mainly of girls.
[3:16] Speaker 1: When it comes to screen time is this umbrellaton. But
[3:19] Speaker 1: social media is not the same as well. It's a
[3:21] Speaker 1: specific form of screen time, but there's other screen time
[3:24] Speaker 1: as well. What does the research tell you about screen
[3:28] Speaker 1: time generally and gaming specifically.
[3:30] Speaker 2: I won't speak to the research too much right here.
[3:32] Speaker 2: I would just say when we're working with clients who
[3:36] Speaker 2: are struggling, when parents are reaching out to us for
[3:39] Speaker 2: some help, we're trying to identify their motivation. Right, It's like,
[3:44] Speaker 2: why is this becoming a problem for you? And why
[3:46] Speaker 2: isn't it healthy? Because it's probably healthy for the majority
[3:49] Speaker 2: of kids who game or young adults who game. And
[3:52] Speaker 2: so what we're trying to distinguish here is are they
[3:55] Speaker 2: running towards something? Are they running away from something? Or
[3:59] Speaker 2: are they running after something? And I suppose breaking that
[4:03] Speaker 2: down a little bit more so, we call it our
[4:05] Speaker 2: cared model, so ci ED and and the first three
[4:10] Speaker 2: letters are from something I think you work with quite
[4:12] Speaker 2: a bit, don't you, self determination theory.
[4:14] Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So we talk about that they're doing it
[4:17] Speaker 1: for the sense of competence, They're doing it because they
[4:20] Speaker 1: like the autonomy of the choice and they build relationships there, right,
[4:23] Speaker 1: So that's the that's the model.
[4:25] Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And so a lot of games are going
[4:29] Speaker 2: to lean into competence, right, there's skills that they're building
[4:32] Speaker 2: in the game, whether it's competitive or not, which in
[4:35] Speaker 2: which case you'll you'll find, you know, relatedness involved as well.
[4:39] Speaker 2: Games that lean into autonomy. An example of that one
[4:42] Speaker 2: would be like Minecraft and it's creative mode. You have
[4:45] Speaker 2: absolute control over your choices because you're being creative.
[4:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go back to the CAD model. So you've
[4:51] Speaker 1: got competence in our time. In relatedness, what are the
[4:53] Speaker 1: E and D.
[4:53] Speaker 2: If we were saying that running towards something is intrinsic drivers,
[4:57] Speaker 2: intrinsic motivators C, A and R, then running away for
[5:01] Speaker 2: something would be E for escape. Right. So if we're struggling,
[5:05] Speaker 2: as a general way of putting it, if we're struggling
[5:07] Speaker 2: with something, whether it's mental health, whether it's bullying, whether
[5:11] Speaker 2: it's financial, insecurity, whatever is going on. If you don't
[5:15] Speaker 2: want to deal with real life, then you can jump
[5:17] Speaker 2: into a game and not have to deal with it.
[5:19] Speaker 1: So tell me more about the player who's running away
[5:22] Speaker 1: from something. I'm really fascinated by this. To me, this
[5:26] Speaker 1: strikes me as being where we move from functional, practical,
[5:31] Speaker 1: enjoyable gaming to gaming that is not healthy. You're talking
[5:35] Speaker 1: about the cra That makes sense to me. I'm having
[5:39] Speaker 1: needs supported in a really positive way, and an environment
[5:42] Speaker 1: is giving me something. But the running away from something,
[5:46] Speaker 1: the escape, to me, that strikes me as particularly likely
[5:49] Speaker 1: to lean into some form of dysfunction.
[5:52] Speaker 2: Absolutely, I don't think it's possible to have a gaming
[5:56] Speaker 2: disorder with that escape. And that's my opinion. I don't
[5:59] Speaker 2: know that any thing can back that up exactly, but
[6:02] Speaker 2: certainly in terms of what we see whenever things get
[6:04] Speaker 2: really problematic, we have a lot of complex clients. Escape
[6:07] Speaker 2: is there there's a common trend I suppose with our clients.
[6:11] Speaker 2: A lot of our clients are neurodivergent, right, and even
[6:15] Speaker 2: just there's all sorts of different reasons to play a
[6:17] Speaker 2: lot of them positive as well in terms of accessing relatedness,
[6:21] Speaker 2: for example, but the stress of being a newer divergent
[6:25] Speaker 2: in a largely neurotypical world, even just that sort of
[6:28] Speaker 2: low level stress, of all the different factors that can
[6:31] Speaker 2: be involved, there can be escape, a reason to escape, right,
[6:34] Speaker 2: But like we said, it can be a lot more acute,
[6:36] Speaker 2: like bullying or comorbid disease like depression and anxiety. And whatnot.
[6:41] Speaker 2: And so I mean that's not a new idea, right,
[6:43] Speaker 2: if you think back to the just general drug or
[6:47] Speaker 2: alcohol addictions, it's always going to be well, I would
[6:51] Speaker 2: I think it's always related to some form of escape.
[6:53] Speaker 2: Certainly the work of Johann Hari would talk about that
[6:57] Speaker 2: where he's gone through and he says the addiction, Sorry,
[6:59] Speaker 2: the opposite of action isn't sobriety, it's connection, right, And
[7:03] Speaker 2: so yeah, all these things play together, I guess what
[7:06] Speaker 2: I'm saying.
[7:06] Speaker 1: Okay, So that leads me into what we're going to
[7:08] Speaker 1: talk about after break. I want to talk specifically about
[7:11] Speaker 1: tips that parents can use to help keep gaming healthy
[7:15] Speaker 1: at home, but even more importantly, I want to talk
[7:19] Speaker 1: about what we can do to help families where things
[7:21] Speaker 1: have gotten out of hand, and that connection piece, I
[7:24] Speaker 1: sense would be a central component of that. So that's
[7:27] Speaker 1: coming up right after the break. Stay with us, Welcome
[7:36] Speaker 1: back into the Happy Families podcast, talking with Andrew Kinch
[7:38] Speaker 1: from Game Awhere. Andrew, let's get really practical for a moment.
[7:41] Speaker 1: I just say'm a parent and I've got a ten
[7:44] Speaker 1: year old or a sixteen year old. They are on
[7:46] Speaker 1: the game, They're on the screen, they're on the controller
[7:51] Speaker 1: just too much, and they're incessantly begging for it. They're
[7:54] Speaker 1: always saying, can I have your phone? Can I have
[7:56] Speaker 1: the iPad? Can I turn on the TV? Can I
[7:58] Speaker 1: have the remote controller? Parents hiding television remotes and game
[8:02] Speaker 1: consoles because this is just relentless and the kids's got
[8:05] Speaker 1: so much energy for it, and we're tired and we're
[8:07] Speaker 1: trying to organize dinner and all those things. What are
[8:10] Speaker 1: the things that you talk to parents at a practical level,
[8:12] Speaker 1: setting aside all the psychological work that needs to be
[8:14] Speaker 1: done and that you work on so much, Just basic
[8:17] Speaker 1: things that parents can do to help to just reduce
[8:22] Speaker 1: the bugging and the hassling and the inability to turn
[8:26] Speaker 1: the screen off once they're on.
[8:28] Speaker 2: I wish it was simple, you know. So why it
[8:32] Speaker 2: is just it's different for everybody, which is why it's
[8:35] Speaker 2: so important. I think to consider the carrot model, right,
[8:39] Speaker 2: It's like, what is their choice of game? What job
[8:42] Speaker 2: is the game doing for them? Right? And so if
[8:45] Speaker 2: you understand their motivators, then that helps you figure out
[8:48] Speaker 2: what to do next. So some of the simpler tips though,
[8:52] Speaker 2: that we can talk about. I love this idea of
[8:55] Speaker 2: not using timers. A timer is like a countdown to
[8:59] Speaker 2: something that that your your little gamer does not want obviously,
[9:03] Speaker 2: the end of their session.
[9:03] Speaker 1: And the anxiety goes up as the time it gets close,
[9:06] Speaker 1: which means that the emotions get higher as the time
[9:08] Speaker 1: it gets close to the zero, right, Like it's it's
[9:10] Speaker 1: as if a disaster.
[9:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's easy to swipe away as well, and
[9:14] Speaker 2: if the parent wasn't around for the timer and then
[9:17] Speaker 2: they're like, oh what happened, and it's just it can
[9:19] Speaker 2: cause more conflict. Right. Something I've experimented on is stop
[9:24] Speaker 2: watches instead. Now there's there's a couple of levels to this,
[9:27] Speaker 2: because what we want to do is have our kids
[9:30] Speaker 2: more self regulating, right, Well, what if we can reward that.
[9:33] Speaker 2: So stopwatch is going to be I mean, you're probably
[9:36] Speaker 2: not gonna have a physical stop watch, so you might
[9:38] Speaker 2: need another screen and don't worry, it's just a screen
[9:41] Speaker 2: relax but has a stop watch and the talk the
[9:44] Speaker 2: clock is sticking upwards. And so the idea is that
[9:47] Speaker 2: our our young gamer needs to check, needs to look
[9:51] Speaker 2: needs to look over, and that means that it can't
[9:53] Speaker 2: just get lost in the immersion. And how that was
[9:57] Speaker 2: a time dilation. I think they call it where you
[9:59] Speaker 2: just lose a sense of time and you're just there
[10:01] Speaker 2: for hours. Well, if you're checking your stop watch as
[10:04] Speaker 2: the clock takes upwards, there can be a limit that
[10:07] Speaker 2: we set as parents, and it's like, well, if you
[10:10] Speaker 2: get off before let's say, let's be easy, it's an hour.
[10:14] Speaker 2: If you get off before the stop watch hits the hour,
[10:17] Speaker 2: I'm going to reward the heck out of it, right,
[10:20] Speaker 2: And so you're rewarding the self regulation. Right, if they
[10:23] Speaker 2: get off at the stopwatch limit that you've set, good job,
[10:27] Speaker 2: pat on the back, but no reward. Right, that's the
[10:30] Speaker 2: idea is to get off earlier, and then if they
[10:32] Speaker 2: get off later. Look, I'm not saying go and punish them.
[10:35] Speaker 2: I'm just saying that needs to have a conversation. It's like,
[10:38] Speaker 2: well i've got a problem. Maybe yeah, maybe maybe our
[10:42] Speaker 2: reward was not significant enough, because what we really need
[10:46] Speaker 2: is a self regulation. That's the ultimate goal.
[10:48] Speaker 1: So two things on this. The first that I would
[10:50] Speaker 1: say is I'm not big on punishments henry rewards. I
[10:53] Speaker 1: find that they are the lowest form of education. But
[10:55] Speaker 1: when you've got a child who is compulsively playing who
[10:57] Speaker 1: is problematically involved in something. Sometimes you need to have
[11:00] Speaker 1: something that will get them moving because intrinsically they're so
[11:04] Speaker 1: drawn into what they're doing. You've got to have something
[11:06] Speaker 1: that gets them away from it. And while I argue
[11:09] Speaker 1: pretty strongly against punishments and rewards in the main, there
[11:12] Speaker 1: are times where they have a place and this is
[11:13] Speaker 1: one of those times where I look at it and say,
[11:15] Speaker 1: it just makes sense. This one's a practical one. The
[11:18] Speaker 1: second thing that really grabs me, though, is I often
[11:21] Speaker 1: talk to parents about saying, what's the transition, Like when
[11:25] Speaker 1: they get off the screen. If you want them to
[11:27] Speaker 1: get off five minutes early and get excited about that,
[11:30] Speaker 1: what are they getting off for? Like where are they
[11:32] Speaker 1: going to Because all too often kids have to get
[11:35] Speaker 1: off the screen and then it's like, well what am
[11:36] Speaker 1: I going to do now? Nothing, I'm bored, there's nowhere
[11:39] Speaker 1: to go, there's nothing to do. It's just that my
[11:40] Speaker 1: time is up. And so having a conversation, we can say,
[11:44] Speaker 1: you know, once this is done, we need to go
[11:46] Speaker 1: and do blah. And it's something that they're looking forward
[11:48] Speaker 1: to that makes the transition off and into the next
[11:52] Speaker 1: activity so much easier. I know that that's a it's
[11:57] Speaker 1: all order for some families, but it changes the game.
[12:01] Speaker 2: Your thoughts definitely. We call this the buffer, and it's
[12:04] Speaker 2: again everything's an experiment, right, So, I mean, we had
[12:08] Speaker 2: a young adult who was quite aggressive playing like a
[12:12] Speaker 2: martial arts fighting game called street Fighter, and so getting
[12:16] Speaker 2: him to transition off the game was very difficult. And
[12:19] Speaker 2: this young man was neurodiversion as well, and he had
[12:23] Speaker 2: a few favorite TV shows and so we decided to
[12:25] Speaker 2: try and leverage this by having the buffer be watching
[12:29] Speaker 2: an episode of Brooklyn ninety nine. So if you're familiar,
[12:33] Speaker 2: it's a comedy, very funny, twenty minute long show or whatever.
[12:37] Speaker 2: And if you're all aggressive from competing, if that's what's happening,
[12:41] Speaker 2: and then you go and do something and that actually
[12:44] Speaker 2: makes you laugh, surely that changes your physiology. Surely it's
[12:47] Speaker 2: much easier to move on to something more productive after
[12:51] Speaker 2: you've had this this buffer activity, which is more to
[12:54] Speaker 2: calm me down. But yeah, definitely having a buffer, So
[12:58] Speaker 2: going from something that's quite stimulating, even relaxing games are
[13:01] Speaker 2: probably stimulating, right, depends how nursive they are, and then
[13:05] Speaker 2: to something that's calming and then something that's more productive
[13:08] Speaker 2: that's how we think it is a good way. We
[13:11] Speaker 2: think that's a good way to transition, I think, and
[13:13] Speaker 2: I guess another tip that we have is that if
[13:15] Speaker 2: you don't know what you're talking about, if you don't
[13:18] Speaker 2: know what they're doing, Like our whole model is, it
[13:20] Speaker 2: takes one to know one, right, and so everybody on
[13:23] Speaker 2: the team, whether they're a psychologist or an ot or
[13:26] Speaker 2: a speechee or just like a mentor, they're all gamers, right,
[13:31] Speaker 2: and we ideally would want to match the same sort
[13:34] Speaker 2: of genre or even game when we're like with the
[13:37] Speaker 2: mentor and then with the young person. But when it
[13:41] Speaker 2: takes one to know, and it really comes down to
[13:43] Speaker 2: it from a parent's perspective, like spend some time in
[13:46] Speaker 2: the game they're playing. You don't have to like it,
[13:49] Speaker 2: you don't have to be good at it probably won't be.
[13:51] Speaker 2: But get to understand the information that's on the screen,
[13:55] Speaker 2: get to understand what the motivators are. By the end
[13:58] Speaker 2: of a good session that we call I'll walk a
[14:00] Speaker 2: mile on their shoes, you would want to be able
[14:04] Speaker 2: to understand what their motivation is. If you you understand
[14:08] Speaker 2: how many eliminations they have, how many people are left
[14:11] Speaker 2: in the game, what circles are it's on, and like
[14:13] Speaker 2: what the dynamics are. If you walk in and there's
[14:16] Speaker 2: three people left in the game, that's when you should
[14:19] Speaker 2: say good luck and moonwalk out of the room, right,
[14:22] Speaker 2: and that will get you so much sort of appreciation
[14:25] Speaker 2: from your child and so getting in on the ground level,
[14:28] Speaker 2: understanding their motivation, understanding the dynamics of the game make
[14:31] Speaker 2: a huge difference in the dynamics and that conversation.
[14:35] Speaker 1: Now Edard, I would love to talk to you for
[14:37] Speaker 1: approximately in another six hours. I feel like we've barely
[14:40] Speaker 1: scratched the surface. Your work is very much about helping
[14:42] Speaker 1: families with problemat gaming, and I have a dozen more
[14:46] Speaker 1: questions that I could ask you, but because time's gotten
[14:49] Speaker 1: the better of us, if families want more help and
[14:52] Speaker 1: they think that you might be the person who could
[14:54] Speaker 1: help them. This is the whole reason that I got
[14:56] Speaker 1: you on the podcast, because I want people to hear
[14:57] Speaker 1: from you, because you've helped families have been in touch
[15:00] Speaker 1: with and said game away has made a difference. How
[15:03] Speaker 1: could people contact you and how can you help them?
[15:07] Speaker 2: So it's pretty easy. The website is www. Dot gameaware
[15:11] Speaker 2: dot com dot AU and you'll find a few things
[15:13] Speaker 2: on there that I think would be helpful right off
[15:15] Speaker 2: the bat. So one thing, if you scroll down, you'll
[15:19] Speaker 2: see that we've got free parent Q and AS that
[15:21] Speaker 2: go for about a half an hour, sometimes a bit
[15:23] Speaker 2: more so. Our next parent Q and A is actually
[15:25] Speaker 2: going to be September twenty third at seven point thirty Melbourne,
[15:29] Speaker 2: Sydney time, and you can just register for any of
[15:32] Speaker 2: the dates when you click on the register for our
[15:35] Speaker 2: parent Q and A link, which is just when you
[15:37] Speaker 2: scroll down the page, there's a contact us page. You
[15:40] Speaker 2: can book in a pre consultation a discovery call with
[15:44] Speaker 2: our team at any time to see if it's a
[15:46] Speaker 2: good fit to work with us. And it should be
[15:49] Speaker 2: noted that it's our policy that we work with the parents.
[15:52] Speaker 2: You guys are the ones in the trenches, right so
[15:55] Speaker 2: we have to be able to help you feel more comfortable.
[15:57] Speaker 2: And then there's also the activity finder which is on
[16:01] Speaker 2: the main page as well.
[16:02] Speaker 1: I'm just looking at the activity finder on the website
[16:04] Speaker 1: as you're speaking, and there are so many options, so
[16:07] Speaker 1: many things. If you just know how to tap into
[16:09] Speaker 1: India son or daughters as you said, their profile. The
[16:13] Speaker 1: thing that's got them in, so we'll link to the activity,
[16:15] Speaker 1: fighter will link to the website, We'll link to everything,
[16:19] Speaker 1: the registration's link for the upcoming Q and A, we'll
[16:22] Speaker 1: link to all of that in the show notes. Andrew,
[16:25] Speaker 1: it's been a real delight to be able to talk
[16:26] Speaker 1: with you today. I have no doubt that you're giving
[16:28] Speaker 1: hope in this conversation to a whole lot of parents
[16:31] Speaker 1: who currently feel like they're in a really dark hole
[16:34] Speaker 1: and would like a way out of it. So thanks
[16:36] Speaker 1: so much for chatting today.
[16:37] Speaker 2: Thanks for having me Andrew.
[16:39] Speaker 1: Kinch Game aware all the links in the show notes,
[16:42] Speaker 1: I have no doubt that this will be useful for
[16:44] Speaker 1: a whole lot of parents. The Happy Family Podcast is
[16:46] Speaker 1: produced by Justin Rulong from Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides
[16:49] Speaker 1: our additional support tomorrow on the pod, having a conversation
[16:53] Speaker 1: about the latest science. Lot's Father's Day this coming weekend,
[16:57] Speaker 1: so we're going to talk about how men parenting differently
[17:01] Speaker 1: according to the latest science, and also what parenting does
[17:05] Speaker 1: to dad's brains. Join us tomorrow for more on that.
[17:09] Speaker 1: Pema's podcast

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