# Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 87: Hither And Yon

An episode of [My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1074507850), 11 Mar 2026, 1 h 42 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/bdde8bb3-169d-43b1-91d3-b24c0047969c/a663d05d-5019-420b-a730-b408004d9d08/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=f450d41f-16bc-4ecd-8f6c-b24c004796e2

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 87: Hither And Yon. Georgia discussed the bombing of Flight 629 and Karen covered the Son Of Sam. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:16] Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
[0:20] Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes
[0:23] Speaker 2: with all new commentary, updates and insights.
[0:27] Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episode episode episode.
[0:30] Speaker 3: Eighty seven, which we named Hither and Yon.
[0:34] Speaker 2: This episode came out on September twenty first, twenty seventeen.
[0:37] Speaker 1: All right, let's listen to the intro of episode eighty seven,
[0:40] Speaker 1: Episode eighty seven.
[0:41] Speaker 2: Episode Welcome to My Favorite Murder, a true crime podcast
[0:51] Speaker 2: for people who are into facts and percentages.
[0:56] Speaker 4: That in itself is not a fact.
[0:58] Speaker 1: That's right. That's Karen Canna Garret, that's Georgia hard Stark.
[1:02] Speaker 1: I'm welcome, and we're finally back in my apartment.
[1:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, this is quite an adjustment, I know.
[1:08] Speaker 1: I'm like, I've been really looking forward to this to
[1:10] Speaker 1: just be like in our element. I was gonna clean
[1:12] Speaker 1: up the podcast loft.
[1:14] Speaker 2: What happened?
[1:15] Speaker 1: I mean, all you have to do is look at
[1:17] Speaker 1: it to know what happened. It's like a fucking bomb
[1:20] Speaker 1: went off in there, an Australian gift bomb. An Australian
[1:23] Speaker 1: gift bomb. We watch wrestling, fucking merch bomb. Oh shit,
[1:27] Speaker 1: there's empty fucking sparklet's bottles up there.
[1:29] Speaker 2: I always forget that there's two podcasts being being beamed
[1:33] Speaker 2: out of this apartment. Yeah, so there's a lot. There's
[1:36] Speaker 2: a lot going on, not just us.
[1:37] Speaker 1: Yeah, and both Vince and I like are the keepers
[1:41] Speaker 1: of the things. So it's just an you know, there's
[1:45] Speaker 1: also cat barf And I'm gonna be honest right now.
[1:47] Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, good, I welcome that honesty. Yeah. I don't
[1:52] Speaker 2: have a cat barf a quol in my house at
[1:54] Speaker 2: the moment. Although I did open the door to a
[1:58] Speaker 2: new my dog walker on vacation and she told me
[2:02] Speaker 2: she had a replacement, but she didn't say the replacement
[2:04] Speaker 2: was automatically coming. She just gave me the number of
[2:06] Speaker 2: the person I could call. Oh and so at like
[2:08] Speaker 2: eleven in the morning, Well, I was wearing When I
[2:12] Speaker 2: wear my black pajamas, they become black with white hair pajamas.
[2:17] Speaker 2: And I was sitting there working on something and the
[2:20] Speaker 2: door bell ring, and I was like, what could possibly
[2:23] Speaker 2: be happening right now?
[2:24] Speaker 4: The worst feeling when the doorbell ring, it's the worst.
[2:26] Speaker 1: I sneak to the door quietly and look out the
[2:30] Speaker 1: thing people, and then I'm like huh uh.
[2:32] Speaker 2: Yeah, but like I'm like front door on the sidewalk.
[2:35] Speaker 2: So it's whoever, And a lot of times it's people
[2:38] Speaker 2: who are shilling for a church or real estate agency.
[2:43] Speaker 2: Hey are you thinking about selling a house? Hey, I
[2:45] Speaker 2: think you should sell this piece of shit house and
[2:47] Speaker 2: get out from get out from underwater. It's usually that.
[2:52] Speaker 2: One time it was the bug man. Did I tell
[2:53] Speaker 2: you about that? When I opened the door and the
[2:55] Speaker 2: guy goes, hey, I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm
[2:59] Speaker 2: and then he stood back a little bit and goes
[3:01] Speaker 2: the bug man, Yeah, And I just shut the door
[3:04] Speaker 2: because he was like he started to say my neighbors
[3:06] Speaker 2: used him to like firks an exterminator or something. But
[3:08] Speaker 2: he he was really young and good looking, and he
[3:11] Speaker 2: had like a uniform on, and I was just like,
[3:13] Speaker 2: get out of here.
[3:14] Speaker 4: You don't try to charm me.
[3:15] Speaker 2: You're gonna bug charm me, Like no, never never. So
[3:20] Speaker 2: this time was weird because it was too beautiful Northern
[3:24] Speaker 2: European looking people with accents. Oh my god. So I
[3:26] Speaker 2: was like, and George immediately goes out because they have
[3:29] Speaker 2: the door open. This yeah, story, but long and short
[3:33] Speaker 2: of it is I met the dog walker that I
[3:35] Speaker 2: had no intention of calling because I didn't want to
[3:37] Speaker 2: talk to a new person. I don't have to make
[3:39] Speaker 2: some kind of a new connection. I was gonna be like, fine,
[3:42] Speaker 2: I'll do it myself. And then they she she has
[3:44] Speaker 2: showed up now every day to like.
[3:47] Speaker 4: It is her PA can't leave me alone.
[3:51] Speaker 2: Now she's already they've already been in they've seen the
[3:53] Speaker 2: worst of the worst.
[3:54] Speaker 1: It's something where you like know that someone's counting on
[3:56] Speaker 1: the money that you're paying them.
[3:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been in that position where you're going to
[4:01] Speaker 2: show up no matter what.
[4:02] Speaker 1: Where I thought that I was getting this much money
[4:05] Speaker 1: this week from this job that I thought I had,
[4:07] Speaker 1: and then someone tells you you're not, and you're so
[4:10] Speaker 1: broke that you're like, well, now I thought I could
[4:12] Speaker 1: cover rent and I can't, Like that's happened to me,
[4:14] Speaker 1: And I burst into tears because I was like, you
[4:16] Speaker 1: canceled on me, and now I'm fucked. So what you
[4:20] Speaker 1: went and did something? No, no, I never did it,
[4:22] Speaker 1: but it's like I don't. I wouldn't want to disappoint
[4:24] Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to do that to someone who's like, Hi,
[4:26] Speaker 1: I'm here, Like I'm supposed to be and you're like, no,
[4:28] Speaker 1: actually you can't.
[4:29] Speaker 4: Take this week off.
[4:30] Speaker 1: Yeah we're going on this tour and now it started
[4:33] Speaker 1: in Australia. End who knows where and when and who
[4:37] Speaker 1: knows when and what and how and why and why
[4:41] Speaker 1: and it could be I mean, stay tuned.
[4:43] Speaker 2: What we can guarantee you is an eventful, you never
[4:46] Speaker 2: know night.
[4:47] Speaker 1: You know what's cool about that is like I have
[4:49] Speaker 1: an issue with going to any I maybe more soon
[4:52] Speaker 1: as younger, Like any event alone, Like just showing up
[4:55] Speaker 1: anywhere alone freaked me out. I've seen a movie alone once,
[4:59] Speaker 1: like as an ext speriment because I was so scared
[5:01] Speaker 1: and I ran in my fucking ex boyfriend with his
[5:02] Speaker 1: girlfriend there.
[5:04] Speaker 2: That's how great it was.
[5:05] Speaker 4: Movie was it was There will be Blood, which.
[5:08] Speaker 1: Is like a move you don't want to watch alone,
[5:11] Speaker 1: like you need to talk to someone about it.
[5:12] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot.
[5:14] Speaker 4: That was the only time ever going to a.
[5:15] Speaker 2: Movie alone you could hide behind because it's like a
[5:20] Speaker 2: good movie yeah, with a good director. So you could
[5:22] Speaker 2: be like, oh, I just had to see this film,
[5:24] Speaker 2: or I could be like my I was with my
[5:25] Speaker 2: friend but they got triggered and ran out. Yeah that's right,
[5:27] Speaker 2: I just ran. They hate milk.
[5:30] Speaker 4: And lots of things. So yeah, So people are always people.
[5:36] Speaker 1: Who we meet with the shows tell us that they
[5:38] Speaker 1: came alone because it's such an event because so many
[5:40] Speaker 1: people have anxiety, and they're like, and it was incredible
[5:43] Speaker 1: and I met awesome people.
[5:44] Speaker 2: Yeah that's true.
[5:45] Speaker 1: That to me is like the people who are scared
[5:47] Speaker 1: of coming alone, Like you're going to be sat next
[5:50] Speaker 1: to someone who you're going to be best friends with.
[5:52] Speaker 2: It's really true. Yeah, it's just everyone, we're all and
[5:56] Speaker 2: then because everyone's the same pretty much, oh my god,
[6:00] Speaker 2: same has the same feel of person. It's hilarious to me.
[6:03] Speaker 2: And also when people tell us they're alone when they
[6:06] Speaker 2: come to meet us at the meet and greet, I
[6:08] Speaker 2: always go, there'll be somebody that's alone, and they'll be
[6:10] Speaker 2: like that girl over, there's a way we always like
[6:12] Speaker 2: yell over a like go touch to.
[6:13] Speaker 1: Her and like if you wear like a shirt that's
[6:17] Speaker 1: like funny that like relates to something murdery, someone's gonna
[6:21] Speaker 1: come off you, Like where did you get that?
[6:23] Speaker 2: Be my best friend?
[6:24] Speaker 1: Someone had a shirt shirt on one of the meet
[6:26] Speaker 1: and greets that said, the husband did it? Did I
[6:28] Speaker 1: talk about this? And I bought us both? I bought
[6:30] Speaker 1: us both, and yeah, because that was the best shirt.
[6:32] Speaker 1: And I worked a therapy just to be like, here's
[6:35] Speaker 1: why in your face, and then my therapist this is
[6:38] Speaker 1: how fucking sweet he is. He was like, uh, oh, well, yeah,
[6:43] Speaker 1: it's always a husband's fault. And I'm like, no, the
[6:45] Speaker 1: husband murdered. He just didn't get oh. He might have
[6:49] Speaker 1: been yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no no. And
[6:53] Speaker 1: in fact, I was I bought a car this week,
[6:56] Speaker 1: oh yeah, yesterday, which.
[6:58] Speaker 2: Was like exciting on a lot of level and scary.
[7:01] Speaker 1: And the car dealer was like the super normal dude,
[7:04] Speaker 1: and we were like looking at the car and you
[7:06] Speaker 1: open the trunk and Vince joked like, which I love that.
[7:09] Speaker 4: Vince said this, oh you g've.
[7:10] Speaker 1: Hit a few bodies in there, and then he points
[7:12] Speaker 1: to the emergency latch and just goes, just make sure
[7:15] Speaker 1: you disabled that.
[7:16] Speaker 2: Oh my god. WHOA was like sold, yes, right, that's
[7:22] Speaker 2: a good sales Oh my god, I bought the car
[7:24] Speaker 2: from How old does he he was?
[7:26] Speaker 1: He definitely didn't listen to the podcast, like is ever
[7:29] Speaker 1: I tweeted it and feel like he must be like no,
[7:31] Speaker 1: it just was like a family man.
[7:33] Speaker 2: Lots of people have good sensites of humor. Yeah, and
[7:36] Speaker 2: he was like twenty eight or so. That's hilarious.
[7:38] Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that style.
[7:41] Speaker 2: I do too.
[7:42] Speaker 1: Now you're just going like you don't know if I'm
[7:44] Speaker 1: gonna if I'm going to be I've had been locked
[7:46] Speaker 1: in a trunk before in my life, but you're just
[7:48] Speaker 1: fucking picking it up.
[7:49] Speaker 2: You know what it is. It's if you've been locked
[7:51] Speaker 2: in a trunk before in your life. The fact that
[7:53] Speaker 2: you're making the joke first means you're okay, right, which
[7:56] Speaker 2: means he can do what he wants right, and that
[7:58] Speaker 2: it's actually additional relief he would join in and not
[8:01] Speaker 2: leave you hanging right or go, oh my god, what's
[8:03] Speaker 2: wrong with you? It's just a classic, like bullshit salesman personality.
[8:08] Speaker 2: It's why I like people like that, and I hate
[8:10] Speaker 2: myself for liking them because it's such an obvious Like
[8:13] Speaker 2: those smooth talkers are my favorite, and they're the they're
[8:17] Speaker 2: the most full of shit people.
[8:18] Speaker 4: Who don't miss a beat right there, don't react.
[8:21] Speaker 2: How thrilling, yes exactly, they go along with it. It's
[8:24] Speaker 2: like constant high end improvise.
[8:26] Speaker 1: Sure, that makes you have to be smarter and quicker too,
[8:29] Speaker 1: but it also is like you're being hurt.
[8:31] Speaker 2: It's exhausting, it's it's thrilling. I cannot get a sense
[8:38] Speaker 2: of time or place because of being back. I know
[8:43] Speaker 2: that it's too long to complain about jet lag. I'm
[8:45] Speaker 2: still complaining about it because I'm still there. Well, it's
[8:48] Speaker 2: not a just jet lag.
[8:48] Speaker 1: It's just that it wasn't a vacation, and we were
[8:51] Speaker 1: constantly busy, and most people don't fly three times inside
[8:56] Speaker 1: of their flight to and from home.
[8:58] Speaker 2: No, No, The traveling that went on within the traveling
[9:03] Speaker 2: was very intense, studying so much. When I want to
[9:08] Speaker 2: write my murder for this week, it was not enjoyable
[9:11] Speaker 2: because there were so many that we had to do
[9:13] Speaker 2: for Australia, and so many that I researched for Australia
[9:17] Speaker 2: and me too because they were so intense. There's some
[9:21] Speaker 2: fucked up, fucked up stories.
[9:23] Speaker 1: I have like five that are half written that I
[9:25] Speaker 1: was going to do from Australia.
[9:26] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[9:28] Speaker 2: Almost.
[9:29] Speaker 1: It's almost good though, because now it feels like, well,
[9:31] Speaker 1: you only have three in Detroit and Toronto.
[9:33] Speaker 2: How great is that that's a fucking walk in the park.
[9:36] Speaker 4: It's no big deal. That's a cake walk in the park.
[9:39] Speaker 2: There's something about Australian true crime that is very dark.
[9:44] Speaker 2: It's like, oh my god, it is for some reason,
[9:47] Speaker 2: maybe it's this judgment feels darker than regular.
[9:50] Speaker 4: It feels like the only murders there are huge murders.
[9:53] Speaker 1: Yes, there's no like, they don't have guns, so it's
[9:56] Speaker 1: not like there's drive bys.
[9:58] Speaker 2: No, it's like a guy that it's got like, picked
[10:01] Speaker 2: up a handful of red clay and painted his face
[10:03] Speaker 2: red and then hidden the bushes to intentionally kill the innocence. Yeah,
[10:08] Speaker 2: like it's a lot of that.
[10:09] Speaker 1: Over and or killed his family on the next level
[10:12] Speaker 1: of family killing.
[10:13] Speaker 2: Yes, what is that familiar side? Yeah? Yeah, I just
[10:17] Speaker 2: picked the story that's the best to tell in terms
[10:19] Speaker 2: of you're not going to fucking believe right right. Also,
[10:23] Speaker 2: I've dipped into like ghost stories and shit, I've gone
[10:25] Speaker 2: when I can't go directly to it, which is a
[10:28] Speaker 2: thing that like, I know a lot of murderers are like,
[10:30] Speaker 2: I'm a murder, you know, have been since day one.
[10:32] Speaker 2: This is my jam, which is great, but not everybody
[10:35] Speaker 2: does it. Twenty four to seven and like I personally
[10:37] Speaker 2: can't do it, so I have Yeah, I definitely have
[10:40] Speaker 2: like murder fatigue right now because I just don't want
[10:43] Speaker 2: I don't want to read about another ax, but I
[10:46] Speaker 2: just don't want it. I can't get enough. I still
[10:50] Speaker 2: can't get enough.
[10:51] Speaker 1: Like I had to, was researching a murder and then
[10:54] Speaker 1: ended up, you know, watching six others on YouTube, which
[10:59] Speaker 1: is like how the most fucked up ones, and then
[11:01] Speaker 1: I was like, this isn't even what you're talking about
[11:03] Speaker 1: this week's stop.
[11:04] Speaker 2: I have to like make myself stop watching it. Oh.
[11:06] Speaker 2: I did the same thing where I kept there's all
[11:08] Speaker 2: kinds of Somebody tweeted this actually because there was a
[11:10] Speaker 2: BuzzFeed list that's like sixteen of the most fucked up
[11:13] Speaker 2: murders you've never heard of Jesus, which as someone tweeted
[11:16] Speaker 2: us and all I'm ready murdering nos say, yeah, right,
[11:19] Speaker 2: like try try me basically, And they were most of
[11:22] Speaker 2: ones that we've all heard, but I always I read
[11:25] Speaker 2: those I go through and I'm like, of course I've
[11:27] Speaker 2: heard it, heard it, heard heard it, And I feel
[11:29] Speaker 2: like now I'm at that point of like it's almost
[11:32] Speaker 2: like a magic the gathering level nerd murder nerd thing
[11:38] Speaker 2: where I've I feel like I've had my hands in
[11:41] Speaker 2: it for so long that I just am like just for.
[11:44] Speaker 4: A little while, like I don't want to play this
[11:46] Speaker 4: game anymore, just.
[11:47] Speaker 2: For a little while. And maybe it's just the traveling.
[11:50] Speaker 1: Okay, before we started this podcast, I would have to
[11:52] Speaker 1: take long breaks from murderer stuff because I would get
[11:55] Speaker 1: really depressed. So the only thing that's kept me from
[11:58] Speaker 1: that now, which i've because we've been doing it NonStop.
[12:01] Speaker 2: Is this a job now?
[12:04] Speaker 1: But I fucking would get dark and deep and depressed
[12:07] Speaker 1: and scared of the world.
[12:09] Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's it's scary. It's scary. It's definitely scary.
[12:13] Speaker 2: On a positive note, self care everybody, Uh, Steven harolded
[12:20] Speaker 2: and lauded at all all through Australia. People lost their
[12:24] Speaker 2: she basically at his secondary meet and greet line where
[12:26] Speaker 2: people would walk away from us and then walk over
[12:28] Speaker 2: to Steven's meet and greet And I think I have
[12:31] Speaker 2: a present for Steven, Like I need to go give
[12:34] Speaker 2: this to Stephen and have him sign this. Yeah.
[12:36] Speaker 1: A couple of people are like, can Stephen be in
[12:38] Speaker 1: this photo? And we made him do Now, Stephen has
[12:40] Speaker 1: a signature pose, which is on one knee with his
[12:43] Speaker 1: shin on his biss.
[12:45] Speaker 2: It's kind of us yeah star prom thing. Yeah, it's perfect.
[12:49] Speaker 1: Oh can I shout out a fucking podcast that I've
[12:52] Speaker 1: been listening to that I really love, podcast Corner.
[12:54] Speaker 2: It's called The Fall Line.
[12:56] Speaker 1: It's a female investigative journalist who every season is going
[13:00] Speaker 1: to talk about marginalized crimes and marginalized communities in Georgia. WHOA, yeah,
[13:08] Speaker 1: because I think that's where she's from. So that's kind
[13:10] Speaker 1: of what she's doing.
[13:11] Speaker 2: She kicking off with the Atlantic child Killer.
[13:13] Speaker 1: No, she's she's like doing ones that we don't know
[13:16] Speaker 1: about that are have been like bungled. Oh yeah, So
[13:19] Speaker 1: this is the nineteen ninety The first one's in nineteen
[13:22] Speaker 1: ninety disappearance of these twin sisters, Dannette and Jeannette Millbrook.
[13:26] Speaker 1: There were fifteen year old African American girls on their
[13:29] Speaker 1: way home. Good girls. They weren't gonna be the typical
[13:32] Speaker 1: not runaways. Fucking disappeared of course quote the runaways and
[13:38] Speaker 1: never got looked into. And so this is actually like
[13:41] Speaker 1: reopening the case and they're looking into it again now
[13:44] Speaker 1: and it might get another one of those ones again
[13:46] Speaker 1: in Georgia where it might get solved.
[13:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing. On the sun they tried to do
[13:49] Speaker 2: runaways in the nineties. Fuck yeah.
[13:53] Speaker 1: I mean it was a poor neighborhood in Georgia and
[13:56] Speaker 1: you know, in Georgia African American community. But like the
[13:59] Speaker 1: girls had seizure medication and didn't have it with them,
[14:03] Speaker 1: Like you don't run away without.
[14:04] Speaker 4: Your cazure medication. You sure don't know.
[14:07] Speaker 1: And they were good girls, and not that bad girls
[14:09] Speaker 1: don't also good disappear.
[14:12] Speaker 2: Right, But that's part of the when it's the disenfranchised
[14:15] Speaker 2: cultures that the people, the larger media or the larger
[14:20] Speaker 2: interpretation is always they were asking for it.
[14:24] Speaker 1: Saf dissumption is they did something and they deserved it
[14:28] Speaker 1: and that's why it happened.
[14:30] Speaker 2: Right. But then they're because I think the people think
[14:33] Speaker 2: that way, so they can just break off from any
[14:35] Speaker 2: kind of care emotional responsibility and it's like, not my problem,
[14:40] Speaker 2: but it.
[14:40] Speaker 1: Won't happen to me or anyone I love, because well,
[14:42] Speaker 1: this is a really good one because she she looks
[14:46] Speaker 1: into all the possibilities, including out like a couple serial
[14:50] Speaker 1: killers in the in the town, one of which sounds
[14:52] Speaker 1: so fucking likely. Wow, And uh, it's just a really
[14:56] Speaker 1: it's one of those you know, female investigative journalists and.
[14:58] Speaker 4: Podcast podcast that has a ton of fucking empathy.
[15:01] Speaker 2: So it's you feel it too. That's great. So that's
[15:04] Speaker 2: the fall that sounds amazing. The fall line that makes
[15:07] Speaker 2: me think that our friend Joe Thornley only her last
[15:12] Speaker 2: name was someone just tweeted at me. She's number one. No,
[15:16] Speaker 2: she's got the number one podcast right now with her
[15:18] Speaker 2: podcast Zealot, which is about cults.
[15:22] Speaker 1: She was she was the hometown the end of the
[15:24] Speaker 1: Live Sydney Show, which went up last week. She was
[15:26] Speaker 1: the hometown Murder, which we originally brought up because she
[15:29] Speaker 1: said she can moonwalk and we knew it'd be a heavy,
[15:31] Speaker 1: heavy episode, like because of what we're talking about. So
[15:35] Speaker 1: we were like, come up on Moonwalk, by the way,
[15:36] Speaker 1: they have a hometown, and she totally did, and she
[15:38] Speaker 1: was charming as fuck and she's like, I also have
[15:40] Speaker 1: a podcast called Zealot about cults, and I looked at
[15:44] Speaker 1: her Instagram and it was like, oh my god, I'm
[15:46] Speaker 1: number forty six on that comedy. She's also it's about cults,
[15:49] Speaker 1: but it's comedy, which is like so oper ally. Yeah,
[15:52] Speaker 1: I'm number forty six on the comedy the iTunes Comedy Podcast.
[15:55] Speaker 2: And then I looked at him, like, oh my gosh,
[15:56] Speaker 2: she's number three right below us. Now she's number one.
[15:58] Speaker 2: She's fucking number one, girl, girl, that's so what happened
[16:02] Speaker 2: with us? Yeah?
[16:03] Speaker 1: Oh, I messaged her on Instagram was like, I've got
[16:05] Speaker 1: I know how you fucking feel right now. You fucking
[16:08] Speaker 1: enjoy this. It's the coolest thing that's ever happened.
[16:10] Speaker 2: That's so good.
[16:11] Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm so happy for her. Yeah, she deserves that.
[16:14] Speaker 2: It's so funny, and it was purely because she sent
[16:17] Speaker 2: the perfectly. The concept of the tweet was you guys
[16:21] Speaker 2: might not feel like talking by the time you get
[16:24] Speaker 2: to the end, let me come up and moon walk
[16:26] Speaker 2: for you. And just the idea of that was so hilarious.
[16:29] Speaker 1: I can't of imagine that we would have picked that
[16:31] Speaker 1: because it's not what we do.
[16:32] Speaker 2: No, it's just like a sidebar. But it was so funny.
[16:34] Speaker 4: It was so funny, and she definitely moonwalked too.
[16:37] Speaker 2: I mean, that's good. Following she moonwalked in high heel.
[16:40] Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's crazy. It was great. It was great,
[16:43] Speaker 2: happy for her anything else. I haven't watched the confession tapes.
[16:49] Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about it. I watchet literally
[16:52] Speaker 2: forty tweets a day saying watch it.
[16:54] Speaker 1: Confession thost Confessions are not my thing because they stressed
[16:58] Speaker 1: me out so much, so stressful, and I can't wrap
[17:00] Speaker 1: my head around them. Even though I understand the ins
[17:03] Speaker 1: and outs, it's just so hard. I get so angry
[17:06] Speaker 1: and stressed out that I can't watch that. But I
[17:08] Speaker 1: am watching our Jessica bial the Center, The Sinner. I'm
[17:13] Speaker 1: on episode three. I'm really suddenly getting into it. Like
[17:16] Speaker 1: the first episode, I was like, mah, second, okay, third,
[17:19] Speaker 1: I'm fucking there.
[17:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good. How about the dirty dirty Bill Pullman.
[17:23] Speaker 4: Oh he's so sexy.
[17:25] Speaker 2: He's dirty. Oh my, he's a dirty slat. It's a
[17:28] Speaker 2: dirty bird, isn't it. He wants to be shamed?
[17:31] Speaker 4: And the submission.
[17:33] Speaker 2: I also love that woman that plays is Domini Chix
[17:36] Speaker 2: or girlfriend or whoever that woman is. Yeah, he just
[17:39] Speaker 2: looks like a normal woman. At the second I see
[17:42] Speaker 2: women like that on TV, I'm like, oh my god,
[17:45] Speaker 2: there's just someone we hold on TV. They're letting someone
[17:47] Speaker 2: not emaciated be on TV.
[17:49] Speaker 1: Do you know what else I love about her character
[17:51] Speaker 1: is that she works at a classy restaurant instead of like,
[17:54] Speaker 1: cause she looks like she'd work at a dive bar
[17:56] Speaker 1: in the on the you know, off the drag, It's like, Nope,
[17:59] Speaker 1: she works at a high and restaurant. It's like, you're
[18:01] Speaker 1: not fucking making her this character that everyone thinks she is.
[18:04] Speaker 2: No, she's like a self possessed, self actualized sex worker
[18:09] Speaker 2: slash ex girlfriend slash something else. It adds to the
[18:13] Speaker 2: interest of like, yeah, this is how complex human beings
[18:17] Speaker 2: actually are.
[18:17] Speaker 1: The acting is really no matter what, and I think
[18:19] Speaker 1: I'm I think I'm really into it. But even if
[18:21] Speaker 1: I'm not, the characters are really interesting.
[18:23] Speaker 2: I think I'm really into it. Don't fight it, just
[18:26] Speaker 2: like it. No, I'm gonna I bought the I bought
[18:28] Speaker 2: the fucking season pass. I'm in. I'm gonna get my
[18:31] Speaker 2: money's it's great. It's really it's really well acted. Yeah,
[18:34] Speaker 2: I am watching something because as I announced that, I was, uh,
[18:39] Speaker 2: just taking a light a light act break. There's a
[18:44] Speaker 2: show called Toast of London. It don't make me this
[18:48] Speaker 2: all over the if you I'm imagining it right now,
[18:51] Speaker 2: do you or do you like peep Show and show?
[18:53] Speaker 2: I love peep Show. Okay, that's I'm at Barry who
[18:57] Speaker 2: the bigger guy from peep Show? Right, No, no, no,
[18:59] Speaker 2: he's not from peep Show, but he just it reminds
[19:01] Speaker 2: me of when you watch sometimes when I brought watch
[19:04] Speaker 2: British comedy and it's so it's so intelligently funny that
[19:10] Speaker 2: it makes me it like, it makes me feel like
[19:13] Speaker 2: screaming as I watch it.
[19:14] Speaker 1: As you don't because you have to be quiet the
[19:16] Speaker 1: whole time because you're gonna miss a fuck anything, so
[19:19] Speaker 1: you can't laugh out loud.
[19:20] Speaker 2: There's listen, yes you have. You're just listening as hard
[19:22] Speaker 2: as you can.
[19:23] Speaker 4: They're so dry, there's no like punchline.
[19:25] Speaker 2: And it's like saying everyone wants everyone to be this funny,
[19:29] Speaker 2: like we're doing it here. Why won't you allow people
[19:32] Speaker 2: to do it there? Anyway, it's called Host of London.
[19:35] Speaker 2: He is like kind of a washup actor. It's so hilarious.
[19:40] Speaker 2: From Dark Places, Yes, Garth Marangs, Yes, okay, I love it.
[19:45] Speaker 2: It's like a new series and it is.
[19:48] Speaker 1: Please go watch them ones you've just mentioned. I think
[19:50] Speaker 1: you have to go online probably right.
[19:52] Speaker 2: I think you're all on Netflix. Fuck.
[19:54] Speaker 4: Dark Places and Peep Show are two of the best,
[19:57] Speaker 4: and we.
[19:57] Speaker 2: Can see if Garth Marang's Dark Places is on Netflix.
[20:00] Speaker 2: It's just excellent. Also, there was a clip we have
[20:04] Speaker 2: to stop talking about this, but there is a scene
[20:07] Speaker 2: from Matt Barry's Sketch Show where he goes, I mean,
[20:09] Speaker 2: he's going to help this girl. She's carrying a big fish.
[20:15] Speaker 2: Have you seen it? And they're walking and he's like,
[20:17] Speaker 2: let me take that for you. He's being super fake
[20:19] Speaker 2: sweet to her, and then she goes. He's like, oh,
[20:21] Speaker 2: are you going off this? And she finally goes like, oh,
[20:23] Speaker 2: my boyfriend's apartments are you and throws it And it's
[20:27] Speaker 2: just as somebody did a super cut of all the
[20:28] Speaker 2: times he does that. Oh my god. And he's just
[20:31] Speaker 2: thrown kick drop kicks a dog.
[20:33] Speaker 1: The minute a girl said, a woman says, I have
[20:36] Speaker 1: a boyfriend, my boy my boyfriend, my boyfriend.
[20:38] Speaker 4: You it's so funny.
[20:40] Speaker 1: And the fish the fish tank had fish in it,
[20:42] Speaker 1: and he broke it and they were on the ground.
[20:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, he smashed it as hard as he could them.
[20:46] Speaker 4: Listen.
[20:47] Speaker 2: So good, it's so good.
[20:51] Speaker 4: Well, go to YouTube.
[20:52] Speaker 2: But toast of London is on Netflix and Peep Show's
[20:55] Speaker 2: on still on Netflix, right, and do you know the
[20:57] Speaker 2: Peep Show. They're coming out with a new season. Oh
[20:59] Speaker 2: my yeah, they're like doing a think it's called something,
[21:03] Speaker 2: it's it's sorry, it's not peep Show. But they're coming
[21:05] Speaker 2: out with a news show. Good good, Hey, should we
[21:09] Speaker 2: sit down? Yeah? Should we talk about murder? Let's do it?
[21:13] Speaker 1: Who the fuck is first? And what are we basing
[21:15] Speaker 1: it off of? I mean Sydney, Sidney, the last show
[21:19] Speaker 1: in Sydney, I'm sorry, the show at the Opera House,
[21:22] Speaker 1: That Opera House show, that show we did at.
[21:24] Speaker 2: The Opera House. Who went first that time? I believe
[21:28] Speaker 2: you did because you went you went last. You did
[21:30] Speaker 2: the Shark Arm. Shark Arm wasn't sne so then I
[21:34] Speaker 2: was first at second night.
[21:35] Speaker 4: So it's you, that's me.
[21:36] Speaker 2: Okay, and we're back.
[21:41] Speaker 1: We're back in the podloft. Podloft days are still happening.
[21:45] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's cat bar, you know. Yeah, all the stuff
[21:49] Speaker 2: that we used to talk about. What a compelling podcast.
[21:52] Speaker 1: You know what I love is that going alone to
[21:54] Speaker 1: our shows became a thing.
[21:57] Speaker 3: I love that so much.
[21:59] Speaker 1: Like I feel like we talked about a fear and
[22:02] Speaker 1: then everyone knew everyone knows it, and then we like
[22:06] Speaker 1: conquered it.
[22:07] Speaker 2: I mean, it's the kind of fear that I think
[22:10] Speaker 2: is so relatable. Everyone has it. You don't want to
[22:12] Speaker 2: go somewhere by yourself, and it's so easy to tell
[22:15] Speaker 2: yourself all the things that could happen or the judgments,
[22:18] Speaker 2: and so then it's like almost creating that space where
[22:22] Speaker 2: it's like trust that this would be a good space, right,
[22:25] Speaker 2: and people keep going like it is, you are right.
[22:28] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very satisfying, and I'll say, like I've gotten
[22:31] Speaker 1: over that so hard that I love going places alone.
[22:34] Speaker 1: I feel like mysterious, like I'm Carmen san Diego or
[22:37] Speaker 1: something like that.
[22:38] Speaker 2: I know, I love it. Can I give a tip
[22:40] Speaker 2: on going places alone? Definitely if it's a party and
[22:43] Speaker 2: maybe this is just for me, but one of my
[22:47] Speaker 2: most successful going to a party alone was kind of
[22:52] Speaker 2: a little bit of a Hollywood one where I was like,
[22:55] Speaker 2: I really want to go to this and it'll be
[22:58] Speaker 2: fun and it's kind of so I know I'll see
[23:01] Speaker 2: people that I know there and it'll be fine, But
[23:03] Speaker 2: it was just that like how do I get through
[23:05] Speaker 2: that front door? And so what I did was I
[23:08] Speaker 2: left my purse in the car, put lipstick and like
[23:11] Speaker 2: the things I wanted in the pockets of this coat
[23:14] Speaker 2: that I loved. That's like it was like basically like
[23:16] Speaker 2: a little swing coat. And then I just wore my
[23:19] Speaker 2: coat all night. So it's like I had this weird
[23:22] Speaker 2: little protection on where I was like, I don't have
[23:25] Speaker 2: a purse where I'm like I just came in from outside.
[23:28] Speaker 2: I had weird little like exchange student energy, whereas like
[23:33] Speaker 2: maybe I'm leaving right now, maybe I'm not from here.
[23:36] Speaker 2: Maybe you don't know.
[23:37] Speaker 3: You don't know, you just can't know.
[23:39] Speaker 1: You reminded me the last time I went to a party,
[23:42] Speaker 1: the other thing that you do, you can wait till
[23:43] Speaker 1: someone else is going in by themselves. I didn't do
[23:45] Speaker 1: it on purpose, but I walked up to my friend's door,
[23:48] Speaker 1: and this is a total fucking the Hollywood brag. The
[23:51] Speaker 1: same time, there was a single another single woman walking
[23:53] Speaker 1: in and we met and became friends and walked in together.
[23:56] Speaker 3: Yes, I walked into a party.
[23:58] Speaker 1: With Judy Greer, Oh my god, And it looked like
[24:00] Speaker 1: I came with her and she was the fucking nicest,
[24:04] Speaker 1: Oh good. She brought a candle as a gift. She's
[24:08] Speaker 1: like housewarming gift.
[24:09] Speaker 2: I love hearing that.
[24:10] Speaker 3: She was the nicest yes, and I brought donuts. She
[24:14] Speaker 3: was lovely.
[24:15] Speaker 2: She's so good.
[24:16] Speaker 1: I know, she's such a good actress. And you could
[24:19] Speaker 1: tell she was a little nervous chew walking in alone.
[24:20] Speaker 1: It's fucking Judy Greer.
[24:22] Speaker 2: Well, it's like when you and I went to that
[24:24] Speaker 2: Megan Malalley party that was like her witches brew party
[24:27] Speaker 2: and all women. And I had the same experience with
[24:29] Speaker 2: Lisa Kudro when you were like one person away from
[24:33] Speaker 2: me because you were talking to somebody.
[24:34] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[24:34] Speaker 2: I was just kind of standing up waiting, and then
[24:37] Speaker 2: she overheard. She goes, did you just say blah blah blah.
[24:39] Speaker 2: I think she was like, are you talking about a network?
[24:41] Speaker 2: And I'm like yeah. She basically was like tell me
[24:45] Speaker 2: about it. And I'm like, okay, Lisa Kudrokudro, Judy Greer,
[24:49] Speaker 2: go ahead, it sounds good. Everybody act as a I love.
[24:54] Speaker 3: It all right, tips and tricks.
[24:56] Speaker 2: We've done the rewind.
[24:57] Speaker 3: And we're getting it all out today.
[24:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't have stuff in your hands, and
[25:02] Speaker 2: you can make it so that you can keep your
[25:03] Speaker 2: hands in your pockets the whole time. If you want
[25:05] Speaker 2: to and make it that you could slide out and
[25:08] Speaker 2: Irish good buye.
[25:09] Speaker 3: The entire thing.
[25:10] Speaker 2: At any point, no one would know you're a purely
[25:12] Speaker 2: safe I like it all right. Oh my god, you
[25:16] Speaker 2: wore a t shirt to therapy that said the husband
[25:18] Speaker 2: did it.
[25:19] Speaker 3: That was my favorite shirt for the longest time.
[25:21] Speaker 1: I have one that's got a kitten on it and
[25:23] Speaker 1: it says filled with rage.
[25:25] Speaker 3: That's my favorite.
[25:26] Speaker 2: I do wear my favorite TikTok sweatshirt, which is this amazing,
[25:30] Speaker 2: hilarious drawing of a frog sitting down trying to touch
[25:34] Speaker 2: his own toes with a cup of tea and an
[25:36] Speaker 2: underneath it says self care See you're just like us.
[25:41] Speaker 2: But that's literally like kind of a one off. There's
[25:44] Speaker 2: not many. I just get to nineties self conscious.
[25:47] Speaker 3: Or I'm just like a band tea kind of a thing.
[25:49] Speaker 2: Don't need anybody reading my body.
[25:51] Speaker 3: Right, It's like it's like a look at me thing.
[25:53] Speaker 1: You have a band tea, a fucking no sing here,
[25:57] Speaker 1: look at these tits.
[25:58] Speaker 2: You're the fucker Get over here. I love a strawbay.
[26:01] Speaker 3: I have a strawberry shirt on right now. Everyone.
[26:03] Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right.
[26:04] Speaker 3: I have many strawberry shirts.
[26:05] Speaker 2: Well it's a very eighties, is it.
[26:07] Speaker 1: Oh?
[26:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a thing in the eighties. Have you
[26:09] Speaker 2: ever seen the eighties or did your sister or anybody
[26:12] Speaker 2: else have the dittos, the jeans that had like little
[26:16] Speaker 2: designs on the back.
[26:17] Speaker 3: Podcasts?
[26:18] Speaker 2: And then it was like I got ones with cherries
[26:21] Speaker 2: on the back. I got ones with blah blah blah
[26:22] Speaker 2: on the back. Strawberries were big.
[26:24] Speaker 1: I think it reminds me of the hungry, hungry caterpillar
[26:26] Speaker 1: as wow, oh he's been really happy.
[26:28] Speaker 2: A wonderful book.
[26:29] Speaker 3: Okay, should we get into it?
[26:31] Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess we should. No, I think you should
[26:33] Speaker 2: describe what we're wearing from our child. Okay, it is
[26:39] Speaker 2: time now to get into Georgia's story about Jack Gilbert
[26:42] Speaker 2: Graham and Flight six twenty nine.
[26:50] Speaker 1: All right, this is the Sorry I just forgot what
[26:52] Speaker 1: I was doing. This is the story of Jack Gilbert
[26:58] Speaker 1: Graham and Flight six twenty nine. All right, So Jack
[27:03] Speaker 1: Gilbert Graham, let's tom Jack was born on.
[27:07] Speaker 2: Flight six twenty nine.
[27:08] Speaker 1: Now, it was like, do I ignore that airplane flying
[27:12] Speaker 1: into this place? Do we have something like a black
[27:15] Speaker 1: box that if we get blown up by an airplane
[27:18] Speaker 1: right now that they can find it, can you save that?
[27:21] Speaker 2: I don't think this would survive airplant Upload it right now,
[27:24] Speaker 2: just in case. The apartment has a black box. That's
[27:27] Speaker 2: all the apartments came with black rights.
[27:29] Speaker 4: That's the thing. That's why you came here. That vintage
[27:32] Speaker 4: ship painting.
[27:32] Speaker 2: That's a black box. Oh ok, yeah, well so so.
[27:36] Speaker 1: Jack is born on January twenty third, nineteen thirty two,
[27:40] Speaker 1: in Denver, Colorado. I was gonna do this for Denver,
[27:42] Speaker 1: but then I'm like, I'm saving the shit out of this.
[27:44] Speaker 1: He's a second child of Daisy Graham and her second husband.
[27:50] Speaker 1: Jack is born during the Great Depression in nineteen thirty seven.
[27:54] Speaker 1: His dad dies of pneumonia, which is a thing back
[27:56] Speaker 1: in the Great Depression. It caused Daisy. Daisy then and
[28:00] Speaker 1: his mother sent him to an orphanage because of their poverty.
[28:03] Speaker 1: Super bummer. It was a thing back then. Yeah, And
[28:06] Speaker 1: sometimes they just did it like it was a pawn shop,
[28:08] Speaker 1: where it was like stay here for a little while.
[28:10] Speaker 2: That's right, I'll come back and get you. Baby farmers, right,
[28:14] Speaker 2: weren't they called baby farmers in England? And I didn't
[28:17] Speaker 2: know that that makes sense, where you just kind of
[28:19] Speaker 2: drop them off and they grow your baby and then
[28:20] Speaker 2: you come pick them back up. They grow your baby poorly,
[28:23] Speaker 2: they grow your baby. But a lot of times what
[28:25] Speaker 2: they would do is kill them and take the money. Yeah,
[28:28] Speaker 2: they would take the money, be like sure, sure, or
[28:30] Speaker 2: we'll totally take care of it and get money from
[28:32] Speaker 2: the state or whatever. Oh no.
[28:34] Speaker 1: So but then Daisy goes and married and I had
[28:37] Speaker 1: to quote this because it was so good well healed,
[28:40] Speaker 1: meaning rich as fuck. Yeah, Daisy marries a richest fuck
[28:44] Speaker 1: rancher named Earl King in nineteen forty one. She's now
[28:47] Speaker 1: like fucking living the high life. Still doesn't get Jack
[28:50] Speaker 1: from the orphanage. Oh yeah, well that's her old life.
[28:54] Speaker 2: She wants to get all that behind her.
[28:55] Speaker 1: She doesn't want to like stress out rancher guy in
[28:59] Speaker 1: his manch He ran away several times to be with
[29:02] Speaker 1: her from the orphanage, but she always brought him back,
[29:05] Speaker 1: which is like, oh no, you're going to raise it.
[29:08] Speaker 2: Oh that's so he would actually get to his mother's
[29:12] Speaker 2: house and she would bring him back the mansion. That's
[29:16] Speaker 2: like something an orphan would make up. She's like, my
[29:18] Speaker 2: mother lives nearby in a mansion, right.
[29:20] Speaker 1: And she must not just be able to come get me,
[29:21] Speaker 1: So I'm going to make it easier for her and
[29:23] Speaker 1: go there.
[29:24] Speaker 2: And then she's all, no, thanks, Nope.
[29:27] Speaker 1: Then, when Jack was eight years old, Daisy, she brought
[29:30] Speaker 1: him home to the ranch to celebrate Christmas from the orphanage, like,
[29:33] Speaker 1: come on home from Christmas, buys him a pony, and
[29:37] Speaker 1: he's like, well, if you're buying me a pony, I'm
[29:39] Speaker 1: clearly here to stay.
[29:41] Speaker 2: Nope.
[29:41] Speaker 4: Once Christmas was over, she takes him back to the
[29:43] Speaker 4: fucking orphanage.
[29:44] Speaker 1: Can you imagine living a lavish whatever week life week
[29:49] Speaker 1: long life in the mansion that your mother gets to
[29:53] Speaker 1: stay in, Your mom get a pony, And there was
[29:57] Speaker 1: an older half sister, so I doesn't say, I wonder
[30:00] Speaker 1: if she was actually living there?
[30:02] Speaker 3: You know.
[30:03] Speaker 2: Also, why don't they just send him to boarding school?
[30:06] Speaker 2: Did they have to be in an orphanage? Sure?
[30:08] Speaker 1: Yeah, So the husband, the richestok husband dies and she
[30:14] Speaker 1: takes the money for inheritance, becomes a successful business woman
[30:18] Speaker 1: and still doesn't fucking get him from the orphanage.
[30:22] Speaker 2: I know you're just telling me a super sad story
[30:25] Speaker 2: this week. That's it. Okay, it's just all about orphans.
[30:28] Speaker 2: Just take that up.
[30:29] Speaker 4: Yeah, well, don't worry. It gets worse, Okay.
[30:34] Speaker 1: When he's sixteen, he forges papers and he joins the
[30:37] Speaker 1: Coast Guard, but his real age is found out and
[30:41] Speaker 1: he's discharged, which is so sad, where it's like he
[30:43] Speaker 1: might have had a good life if they had just
[30:45] Speaker 1: like he wanted to join the Coast Guard and be
[30:49] Speaker 1: part of the military and they were like sixteen, which
[30:53] Speaker 1: back then was like twenty seven in terms of like
[30:56] Speaker 1: being on your own, you could probably drink already.
[30:59] Speaker 2: I mean, but if it was still during its list
[31:01] Speaker 2: is a little after the depression, because maybe it's like
[31:03] Speaker 2: no free lunches.
[31:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, come back when you're eighteen. Yeah, you're on free
[31:07] Speaker 1: lunch until Yeah, go get your free lunch with the orphanage.
[31:10] Speaker 2: Because maybe they would get in trouble for you know,
[31:13] Speaker 2: that's true dangerous. I don't know.
[31:16] Speaker 4: At nineteen.
[31:17] Speaker 1: So finally, at nineteen, he forged for over four grand
[31:20] Speaker 1: in checks to finance a road trip that got him
[31:24] Speaker 1: and it ended up the forged checks got on two
[31:26] Speaker 1: months into Texas jail for bootlegging and running a police
[31:29] Speaker 1: road block at one hundred miles per hour, which sounds
[31:31] Speaker 1: like fucking fun.
[31:32] Speaker 4: Yes, bootlegging.
[31:34] Speaker 2: Yeah. At this point he's like, who gives a fuck. Yeah,
[31:37] Speaker 2: I'm going to go. Everyone in charge is crazy. I'm
[31:39] Speaker 2: going to live my life. Yeah.
[31:42] Speaker 1: Uh. He's extradited back to Denver's mom pays his debt
[31:46] Speaker 1: and probation is granted. So he then goes to the
[31:50] Speaker 1: University of Denver, which is hilater like he must be
[31:52] Speaker 1: have some must be kind of smart.
[31:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, in a way, I couldn't get into a un
[31:57] Speaker 2: the university system here in California.
[31:59] Speaker 3: What did our.
[32:00] Speaker 2: Uber drivers tell us when we were in Boulder.
[32:03] Speaker 1: It was the night before school started for the University
[32:08] Speaker 1: of Boulder.
[32:09] Speaker 2: Yes, I think so whatever whatever the law Bolder.
[32:14] Speaker 4: Couldn't get into she said to us.
[32:17] Speaker 1: No, he said to us, Yeah, well Boulders not Boulder
[32:21] Speaker 1: College is known as a pretty easy to get into
[32:24] Speaker 1: school in Everyone there was stupid, which I was just like, Okay,
[32:29] Speaker 1: I don't feel so bad about going to community college
[32:31] Speaker 1: and dropping out.
[32:32] Speaker 2: Now. I went to sex State where they were like,
[32:35] Speaker 2: please come here, Please come and be one of the
[32:37] Speaker 2: two hundred thousand people that go to this. We need
[32:40] Speaker 2: you more than you need us. Yeah, Oh my god,
[32:42] Speaker 2: I love it, but we should add this that. Then
[32:45] Speaker 2: after our show and we all went downtown to like
[32:48] Speaker 2: try to find a party, where people told us over
[32:52] Speaker 2: and over again, don't go downtown. Yeah, they were like,
[32:55] Speaker 2: you don't want to go down there because it was
[32:56] Speaker 2: all college kids partying, college kids just running amuck in
[32:59] Speaker 2: the street, all of them lovely polite.
[33:02] Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
[33:02] Speaker 2: My sister asked for directions at one point and the
[33:04] Speaker 2: boy was like practically walked them to the door of
[33:07] Speaker 2: the place I'm trying to find. Yeah.
[33:09] Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're not listened Boulder College. I mean, I
[33:12] Speaker 1: just I figure I put that out there too, of Colorado.
[33:17] Speaker 1: That's very fair of you. I wasn't gonna.
[33:20] Speaker 2: I mean, we can't call everybody stupid and just walk away.
[33:23] Speaker 4: You're right, Uh dude?
[33:26] Speaker 2: Okay.
[33:26] Speaker 1: So attends Denry University, meets his wife, Gloria Daisy. The
[33:32] Speaker 1: mom and Jack were estrange until nineteen fifty four, when
[33:35] Speaker 1: Jack was twenty two years old, and Daisy at this
[33:37] Speaker 1: point is running a successful restaurant, and in May of
[33:40] Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five, she builds a Crown Aid.
[33:43] Speaker 4: She builds Crown a.
[33:45] Speaker 1: Drive in, which is what it was called for. Him
[33:47] Speaker 1: to manage. She just like builds a place so he'll
[33:50] Speaker 1: have a fucking job.
[33:51] Speaker 2: That's the big, that's the big, get back, that's the big.
[33:53] Speaker 2: Sorry about the orphanage your whole life?
[33:55] Speaker 4: Remember when I abandoned the shit out of you forever?
[33:58] Speaker 1: Hey, Well then how about some middle management? Yeah, have
[34:00] Speaker 1: a clean up French fry Greece every night. Good luck
[34:03] Speaker 1: with that, and manage like roller scanning waitresses. You hate
[34:06] Speaker 1: your guts, love mommy, love your mommy. Fucking but Daisy
[34:12] Speaker 1: and Jack they still had a shitty relationship. They're often
[34:15] Speaker 1: seen arguing, and in nineteen fifty five, Daisy's restaurant her
[34:18] Speaker 1: other restaurant has a gas explosion. It causes severe damage
[34:22] Speaker 1: closes her restaurant for good.
[34:24] Speaker 2: Huhm hm hmm. The most interesting kind of explosion, right,
[34:28] Speaker 2: gas line?
[34:29] Speaker 1: Would I bring it up if it wasn't relevant? Probably not?
[34:32] Speaker 2: Probably, probably, yeah, maybe.
[34:33] Speaker 4: Not, maybe not.
[34:34] Speaker 2: We we won't know, you'll never know. There's a third
[34:39] Speaker 2: choice and we don't know it yet.
[34:41] Speaker 1: Um then okay, So Daisy, this points a fifty three
[34:45] Speaker 1: year old widow fifty three at that.
[34:46] Speaker 4: Point as fucking old as shit.
[34:48] Speaker 1: She's liked for the Hills lady, you've done for you
[34:51] Speaker 1: retire already.
[34:51] Speaker 4: Well yeah, so, so she tells Jack.
[34:54] Speaker 1: Jack's twenty three at this point, he's got a wife,
[34:58] Speaker 1: they have a baby.
[35:00] Speaker 2: He's like made good.
[35:01] Speaker 1: And made a family and works for his mother. Like
[35:04] Speaker 1: he's clearly trying to fucking label make her want him still,
[35:09] Speaker 1: you know. And she's like, oh, by the way, the
[35:11] Speaker 1: holiday's coming up. Even though you have a new baby,
[35:13] Speaker 1: I'm gonna go instead go to Alaska and visit your
[35:16] Speaker 1: older sister.
[35:17] Speaker 2: God I hate her. It's so the people close to
[35:24] Speaker 2: you are the ones that can hurt you the most,
[35:27] Speaker 2: and they do, and why do we let them? Because
[35:29] Speaker 2: you just that's life. That's like, it's a series of
[35:32] Speaker 2: insults and injuries.
[35:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, And you're trying to fix yourself so that you
[35:38] Speaker 1: fit into what they want from you, even though they
[35:41] Speaker 1: have no fucking clue what they want from you because
[35:43] Speaker 1: they're broken too.
[35:44] Speaker 2: And then you realize you fix yourself for yourself, and
[35:47] Speaker 2: you drive through a fucking police roadblock like this is.
[35:51] Speaker 1: My remember, this is my movie, and you're like, you
[35:53] Speaker 1: have fun, that's right, you're drinking fucking shitty bathtub gin.
[35:58] Speaker 2: Yes, you're playing the best. You're just going for it. Yeah.
[36:02] Speaker 1: And then in Texas of all places, which had to
[36:04] Speaker 1: be fun. Yes, go watch everyone, go watch Paper Moon.
[36:07] Speaker 1: I bet that's what his life was like. That movie
[36:09] Speaker 1: is so amazing.
[36:10] Speaker 2: Or Friday Night Lights.
[36:11] Speaker 4: Oh yeah, they weren't bootlegging.
[36:14] Speaker 3: In that movie where they could have been.
[36:16] Speaker 2: There was that one season where the brothers stole copper wiring.
[36:20] Speaker 1: There was that one season where they had, uh, what's
[36:23] Speaker 1: it called prohibition?
[36:25] Speaker 2: But what did you say? I just said pot? Oh,
[36:28] Speaker 2: they took some pot. They took pot.
[36:31] Speaker 1: That the okay, and that I wrote, And that, as
[36:35] Speaker 1: they say, was the final final fucking straw for him. Yeah,
[36:38] Speaker 1: And I was like, or maybe it was the pony
[36:40] Speaker 1: years and years ago. That was the final straw, and
[36:42] Speaker 1: he just like hadn't planned it yet.
[36:45] Speaker 2: This straw went in and then it was it just waited.
[36:48] Speaker 2: It was benine until it became ali.
[36:50] Speaker 4: Yeah, it just got heavier over the years.
[36:52] Speaker 3: Okay.
[36:53] Speaker 1: November one, nineteen fifty five, Jack's like, Okay, you want
[36:57] Speaker 1: to go to Alaska.
[36:58] Speaker 2: Great, let me take you to the airport. Oh, I'll
[37:01] Speaker 2: take you to the airport to go to Alaska. So loaded,
[37:05] Speaker 2: because I just was like, it's literally loaded it. Oh,
[37:11] Speaker 2: all right, I'm gonna let you go. Well, just just
[37:13] Speaker 2: going to the airport by itself. Like the morning we
[37:16] Speaker 2: were leaving for our trip, you were like, come to
[37:18] Speaker 2: my house if you want to ride with us, come
[37:20] Speaker 2: to my house. We're leaving at seven thirty. Da da da.
[37:22] Speaker 2: And then I was just like, I am so stressed,
[37:25] Speaker 2: and now I'm adding another thing to be stress there
[37:27] Speaker 2: waiting for me. Yeah, and I'm gonna screw this hour. No,
[37:29] Speaker 2: I'm going to be on time.
[37:30] Speaker 1: I think it's better that you not that you would
[37:33] Speaker 1: have done anything wrong. You were there with the exact
[37:34] Speaker 1: same time.
[37:35] Speaker 2: It's that thing of we were which I think we
[37:38] Speaker 2: did very well with the anxiety of travel.
[37:41] Speaker 4: Oh my god, we had such a good friendship trip.
[37:45] Speaker 4: It was so fun. It was so good.
[37:47] Speaker 1: We had the best Stephen, thank you for being a
[37:49] Speaker 1: kitten in the in the group of like.
[37:52] Speaker 2: Just Stevens, Stevens saying I get but it's like, yeah,
[37:56] Speaker 2: we're I think we're both aware. But also it's that
[37:58] Speaker 2: thing of like just level anxiety not knowing things walking up.
[38:04] Speaker 2: You never know what the fuck you're doing or where
[38:06] Speaker 2: you're supposed to be.
[38:06] Speaker 1: Which is great that we have Vince, who could not
[38:10] Speaker 1: let who could not be in charge, not be in
[38:12] Speaker 1: charge if he tried, Yes, and so it's the best. Yeah,
[38:15] Speaker 1: he would never if it was up to one of us,
[38:18] Speaker 1: he would lose his fucking one. Yeah, he would lose
[38:22] Speaker 1: his mind. Me too, Yeah, me too.
[38:25] Speaker 2: Between Vince and then our Australian, our manager Nick, who
[38:28] Speaker 2: was a genius.
[38:30] Speaker 4: We love you. You're never gonna listen to this podcast.
[38:32] Speaker 2: He's so punk rock. Yeah he doesn't.
[38:35] Speaker 4: He was so punk rock.
[38:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the best. He's the best. I want him
[38:40] Speaker 2: to always travel with us. Okay, so sorry, I'm just
[38:42] Speaker 2: I'm setting the table of I now have travel anxiety.
[38:45] Speaker 1: Just hearing travel anxiety, secks, Can you okay picture this?
[38:49] Speaker 1: You're everyone's a little scared of flying. You're anxious at
[38:52] Speaker 1: the airport. Traveling is new, it's nineteen fifty five, like, oh,
[38:56] Speaker 1: passenger traveling is pretty new. And sitting at the in
[38:59] Speaker 1: the airport before you get on your plane is a
[39:01] Speaker 1: fucking like cigarette machine that instead of cigarette sells life insurance.
[39:06] Speaker 1: What before you get on the plane, swear it's a
[39:10] Speaker 1: fucking god.
[39:11] Speaker 4: This was a thing until the eighties.
[39:14] Speaker 1: So you go in there and in this case, Jack
[39:16] Speaker 1: puts in a dollar fifty and gets out a life
[39:19] Speaker 1: insurance policy for his mother is about to fly to
[39:21] Speaker 1: Alaska for thirty seven thousand, five hundred dollars, which at
[39:26] Speaker 1: that time is this time it would be almost three
[39:28] Speaker 1: hundred fifty thousand dollars, and it's just like good luck
[39:32] Speaker 1: on your like everyone just bought them and it was like,
[39:35] Speaker 1: hope you don't die.
[39:36] Speaker 2: It's so perfect, Like it's so perfect. If he has
[39:40] Speaker 2: any bad intentions, he didn't fucking put the machine there,
[39:45] Speaker 2: like he's just using it like everybody at.
[39:47] Speaker 1: That day, everyone's like it's a thing of like, oh
[39:49] Speaker 1: I better do it for good luck though you know
[39:51] Speaker 1: what I mean, Like of course when I don't do it,
[39:52] Speaker 1: it's gonna it's like having your numbers on Roulett where
[39:54] Speaker 1: it's like you always do thirteen, yeah, but like this
[39:57] Speaker 1: one time, it's like, well what if thirteen comes up?
[39:59] Speaker 4: So I just always put it on thirteen.
[40:00] Speaker 2: Same with renting a car, Yeah, it's gone to me
[40:02] Speaker 2: the time you don't get rental insurance exactly I did.
[40:06] Speaker 1: I did that where it's like why did you bring
[40:08] Speaker 1: up rental insurance, dude?
[40:10] Speaker 4: Because now I have to.
[40:11] Speaker 1: Get it yep, all right, okay, right, So I think
[40:15] Speaker 1: they did away with that on purpose because it's terrifying
[40:17] Speaker 1: to everyone.
[40:18] Speaker 2: That's terrifying. It also it opens the door to people
[40:21] Speaker 2: who should not be able to just buy life insurance policies.
[40:23] Speaker 2: Hither and Yon, but also don't yon, that was I
[40:29] Speaker 2: got a stuff on that.
[40:31] Speaker 4: I've never heard that, but I know what you meant.
[40:33] Speaker 2: It didn't really apply to what I was saying.
[40:35] Speaker 4: But well, hither and thither it's like here and there.
[40:37] Speaker 2: But no, I know, but I want to now see
[40:40] Speaker 2: all those machines that they made in the fifties when
[40:42] Speaker 2: they were like making like life is going to be
[40:44] Speaker 2: easier because we have these machines.
[40:46] Speaker 1: I had like a photo, like a drawing of like
[40:48] Speaker 1: a happy family on the way to that walk into that,
[40:50] Speaker 1: you know, because you'd walk on the tarmac walk. Yeah,
[40:53] Speaker 1: oh god, I bet we could find it. I could,
[40:54] Speaker 1: but we could find one in like American pickers that show,
[40:58] Speaker 1: and then.
[41:00] Speaker 2: They they must have kept them.
[41:03] Speaker 1: Can I bet there's some that have like it's some
[41:05] Speaker 1: mechanic they're playing mechanic who they were closing down that
[41:09] Speaker 1: and he took it home because because he's a hoarder
[41:12] Speaker 1: and it still has the papers you would get.
[41:14] Speaker 2: Could you imagine?
[41:15] Speaker 4: Yes, I need that for the podcast off.
[41:18] Speaker 2: It's such a good idea. Yeah, you need to put
[41:20] Speaker 2: that up there.
[41:21] Speaker 4: Can someone please bring us that?
[41:23] Speaker 2: Actually yeah, okay. It's just around the same time as automats,
[41:27] Speaker 2: which are the most hilarious there. When cafeterias they pretended
[41:31] Speaker 2: to be automated, but it was just people putting dishes
[41:34] Speaker 2: into those.
[41:34] Speaker 4: Like press it's like pressing d seven.
[41:36] Speaker 1: It's like a hand coming out and handing you the
[41:38] Speaker 1: like the cream corn.
[41:40] Speaker 2: Or whatever there. Yeah, so you just have a bunch
[41:42] Speaker 2: of plates.
[41:42] Speaker 1: Like one of my one of my time travel like
[41:45] Speaker 1: plans is I would go to an automat because I
[41:47] Speaker 1: love cafeterias more than anything.
[41:49] Speaker 2: Yes, a thousand percent, Yeah, I would do.
[41:52] Speaker 1: When we time travel and then we're going to go
[41:54] Speaker 1: shopping at fucking May Company.
[41:56] Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, when they run the things like you know,
[42:00] Speaker 2: but they used to run the money along wires abe
[42:03] Speaker 2: they would drop it down, so we like anyway, Okay,
[42:06] Speaker 2: but I want dresses, Yes, you can go do that. Well,
[42:08] Speaker 2: I go look at the dresses and girdles.
[42:11] Speaker 1: Go ahead, okay, great, Okay, well, here's where it gets crazy. Okay, before, Okay,
[42:19] Speaker 1: here's what happened. Wait, let's go back to before.
[42:23] Speaker 2: Wait.
[42:24] Speaker 3: No.
[42:24] Speaker 1: Jack says to Daisy that he left a surprise Christmas
[42:27] Speaker 1: gift in her suitcase. Spoiler alert, it wasn't a puppy
[42:33] Speaker 1: and I wrote that so it was kind of corny instead.
[42:36] Speaker 1: In Daisy's large tan Samsonight suitcase, alongside the photo album
[42:43] Speaker 1: of Jack and Gloria's wedding that Daisy was going to
[42:45] Speaker 1: show to her daughter in Alaska, he had placed the
[42:47] Speaker 1: neat bundle of explosives. Less than an hour after the
[42:53] Speaker 1: flight took off. The United Airlines flight became the first
[42:56] Speaker 1: confirmed sabotage of a commercial aircraft in the United States
[43:01] Speaker 1: when it exploded mid air.
[43:03] Speaker 2: Oh fuck, have.
[43:04] Speaker 4: You not seen this crown to remember? Oh my god.
[43:08] Speaker 1: It crashed into farmland and sugar beet fields near Longmont, Colorado,
[43:13] Speaker 1: and Daisy and the forty three other passengers and crew
[43:17] Speaker 1: all died.
[43:18] Speaker 2: Oh god.
[43:20] Speaker 1: The youngest passenger was thirteen month old James Fitzpatrick, the
[43:24] Speaker 1: second the eldest was eighty one year old Leyla McLain.
[43:28] Speaker 1: Five children lost both their parents and the crash pregnant
[43:32] Speaker 1: twenty two year old Carol Binam and her husband both died.
[43:37] Speaker 1: It was the worst mass murder in US history at
[43:40] Speaker 1: the time and remains the worst in Colorado, and was
[43:44] Speaker 1: one of the largest investigations in.
[43:46] Speaker 2: The FBI history.
[43:48] Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know the FBI obtained so can
[43:53] Speaker 1: I really quickly? I just want to say, also, and
[43:55] Speaker 1: I know it's fucking sidebar nation over here, but I
[43:58] Speaker 1: just finished What's weird about this? That I was planning
[44:00] Speaker 1: on doing this, and then I didn't realize until today
[44:03] Speaker 1: when I finished this audiobook I've been listening to that
[44:06] Speaker 1: is so fucking good.
[44:07] Speaker 2: But it's about a.
[44:09] Speaker 1: Plane crash, that sabotage that goes the whole story. You
[44:14] Speaker 1: don't find out what happened until the very end, And
[44:16] Speaker 1: in my car at like two o'clock today I found
[44:19] Speaker 1: out and I almost had a pullover because I was crying.
[44:21] Speaker 2: Wow, so good. Was it a true story?
[44:23] Speaker 4: No?
[44:23] Speaker 2: No, yeah, it's a novel.
[44:25] Speaker 4: It's called Before the Fall by Noah Holly.
[44:28] Speaker 2: H A w l e y Oh spoiler alert. What
[44:30] Speaker 2: did I say? You said what the ending was? What
[44:34] Speaker 2: did I say you said that it was the explosion? Oh?
[44:38] Speaker 1: No, it's not an explosion though, it's just it's just
[44:40] Speaker 1: a plane crash.
[44:42] Speaker 4: Oh okay, that's not no, no, no, So the explosion isn't
[44:44] Speaker 4: part of it.
[44:44] Speaker 1: It's a plane crash that that they have to then,
[44:47] Speaker 1: so I got to talk about how they figured out
[44:49] Speaker 1: what had happened on the in the plane crash by
[44:51] Speaker 1: putting it in the hangar.
[44:52] Speaker 4: So this same kind of thing happened.
[44:54] Speaker 1: Well, they had a piece together to figure out what
[44:56] Speaker 1: happened in the plane crash, and they do it by
[44:58] Speaker 1: interviews and going back to the day of the crash
[45:01] Speaker 1: and who did what and what happened, and all the
[45:03] Speaker 1: characters are really good. It's not an explosion. Okay, okay,
[45:06] Speaker 1: that's a spoiler alert. I thought that's what you were.
[45:09] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[45:10] Speaker 2: I just had the name of the book.
[45:12] Speaker 4: It's called Before the Fall, and the audiobook is great.
[45:17] Speaker 2: The reader is really good. You know, it's hard to
[45:19] Speaker 2: find that name sounds familiar. Noah, Holly, I bet he
[45:22] Speaker 2: did something really cool. I feel like it's the guy
[45:24] Speaker 2: that I could be wrong, but that might be the
[45:27] Speaker 2: guy that does that does.
[45:31] Speaker 1: A fargo now, yes, really, yes, okay, coming back, Karen,
[45:36] Speaker 1: just fucking oh my god, your memory is bananas?
[45:40] Speaker 2: Is it?
[45:40] Speaker 1: Though your memory is certain ways it is Noah, Holly,
[45:46] Speaker 1: Is it Holly?
[45:47] Speaker 2: It's h Holly. J A. W. L. E. Y. But
[45:50] Speaker 2: he's not. He does a lot of things, but he
[45:53] Speaker 2: is the reason of fucking Fargo series is so magical
[45:56] Speaker 2: because it's being written. It's a novelist writing a TV show.
[45:59] Speaker 2: So it's like I had pictures.
[46:02] Speaker 1: Yeah, well now I'm even more proud of myself for
[46:04] Speaker 1: finding this fucking book.
[46:05] Speaker 2: The nice He's got other ones here, so.
[46:08] Speaker 4: I'm going to download all of them.
[46:09] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[46:09] Speaker 1: Great audiobook, which sometimes I'll be like, don't get the audiobook,
[46:13] Speaker 1: read the book.
[46:14] Speaker 2: It's better. This was a great audiobook.
[46:16] Speaker 1: And it's just weird that I'm doing this story at
[46:19] Speaker 1: the same time as this, because I literally I don't
[46:20] Speaker 1: cry at books and movies. And I almost had a
[46:23] Speaker 1: pullover because I was just like so taken aback.
[46:26] Speaker 2: By some I love a good author, like someone much
[46:29] Speaker 2: really does it right.
[46:30] Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we that we put that you
[46:32] Speaker 1: put that together. Okay, So the FBI obtained use of
[46:38] Speaker 1: a nearby barn. They reassembled the fragments of the airplane
[46:41] Speaker 1: collected from the site, and they were able to determine
[46:43] Speaker 1: that the explosives were used, which is so incredible to
[46:46] Speaker 1: me that a flight a plane can blow up and
[46:49] Speaker 1: crash and they can still put it together and figure
[46:51] Speaker 1: out what happened.
[46:51] Speaker 2: They put it together like a huge puzzle. It's incredible.
[46:55] Speaker 2: It's crazy. Those people must be so smart.
[46:59] Speaker 1: They went, yeah, I'm not gonna say it.
[47:04] Speaker 4: I'm done with that. I'm done with folder.
[47:10] Speaker 1: And then they and they determined that which piece of
[47:13] Speaker 1: luggage it had come from. Oh fuck yeah, like it
[47:17] Speaker 1: went off in that piece of luggage. And they figured
[47:19] Speaker 1: out what piece of luggage it came from, and they
[47:21] Speaker 1: figured it out with Daisy's Tan Sampson I.
[47:26] Speaker 3: All right.
[47:27] Speaker 1: They so they started looking into her family and looked
[47:30] Speaker 1: into Jack when they found out about his criminal past
[47:33] Speaker 1: with the bootlegging shit. They also determined that Daisy's restaurant
[47:37] Speaker 1: had been damaged by quote a suspicious explosion as well,
[47:41] Speaker 1: and that Jack had received the insurance settlements, which is like, dude,
[47:45] Speaker 1: change your momo a little bit.
[47:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean.
[47:47] Speaker 4: Don't keep exploding things.
[47:49] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[47:49] Speaker 1: Locals also suspected Jack of deliberate causing his new pickup
[47:53] Speaker 1: truck to be stuck by to be stuck struck by
[47:56] Speaker 1: a train that year for insurance money. So this guy
[47:59] Speaker 1: was like after insurance money and into explosions. They also
[48:03] Speaker 1: found that when she died, a large part of Daisy's
[48:07] Speaker 1: estate would go to Jack, so insurance money again.
[48:10] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[48:10] Speaker 1: After a few days of questioning, Jack said, okay, where
[48:14] Speaker 1: do you want me to start? And then, in great detail,
[48:17] Speaker 1: he described building and planting the bomb that killed his
[48:19] Speaker 1: mother and forty three others on flight six twenty nine.
[48:23] Speaker 1: It was constructed of twenty five sticks of dynamite, a
[48:26] Speaker 1: six foot battery, two electric primer caps in case one
[48:29] Speaker 1: of them failed, and a timer set to detonate in
[48:32] Speaker 1: about ninety minutes.
[48:34] Speaker 4: After he planted it or turned it on.
[48:36] Speaker 1: Working in an electronic shop for just two weeks, he
[48:40] Speaker 1: had given Jack all the expertise he needed to build
[48:42] Speaker 1: the bomb, So this guy must have been fucking smart.
[48:44] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[48:45] Speaker 1: I then he said, I then took this, and I
[48:48] Speaker 1: then took the sack of dynamite with the battery and
[48:50] Speaker 1: tim are attached, and placed it in my mother's large suitcase.
[48:53] Speaker 1: Based on all that evidence found at Jack's house, he
[48:57] Speaker 1: was arrested charge of sabotage, and later that was changed murder.
[49:01] Speaker 1: After they erects arrest, some newspaper people, radio station people
[49:08] Speaker 1: were able to sneak for cameras and recording into the jail,
[49:12] Speaker 1: and Jack told them, I loved my mother very much.
[49:17] Speaker 1: She meant a lot to me. It's very hard for
[49:19] Speaker 1: me to tell exactly how I feel. She left so
[49:21] Speaker 1: much of herself behind, which I'm like, no, she fucking didn't.
[49:25] Speaker 1: I mean, is that insensitive?
[49:28] Speaker 2: It's insane of him to say, Yeah, it's super bizarre.
[49:32] Speaker 1: I think he must have not had our emotions or
[49:35] Speaker 1: feelings that we have. I don't want to call him
[49:38] Speaker 1: the sociopath because people are like, that's not really.
[49:41] Speaker 2: Well it may or may not apply, but he's definitely
[49:45] Speaker 2: was insanely like damaged and abused as a child, and
[49:48] Speaker 2: that the.
[49:48] Speaker 1: Emotional attachments you have were broken. Yeah, at some point.
[49:52] Speaker 2: His mother repeatedly rejected him. That's like there's some serial
[49:56] Speaker 2: killers that that it only happens once and they.
[50:00] Speaker 4: He still doesn't mean he didn't love her.
[50:02] Speaker 1: It could mean that he loved her more really in
[50:05] Speaker 1: a way that we don't feel love, but that feels
[50:07] Speaker 1: like love to someone else.
[50:09] Speaker 2: Well, it's all he knew. Yeah, it's I mean he.
[50:11] Speaker 1: Lived in an orphan He had that thing of like you,
[50:15] Speaker 1: if you don't have emotional attachments to not just your parents,
[50:19] Speaker 1: but to like a caregiver as a young child, you
[50:24] Speaker 1: can't have those to anyone or it's really hard to
[50:28] Speaker 1: change that.
[50:29] Speaker 2: That's right. It's sad.
[50:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, But he's also a murderer and murdered a bunch
[50:35] Speaker 1: of innocent people.
[50:35] Speaker 2: I mean, the plan of that, the coldness of the
[50:40] Speaker 2: plan of revenge on his mom, but then just like
[50:44] Speaker 2: total devastation on all these other people, many families. So
[50:48] Speaker 2: it's so evil.
[50:49] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[50:53] Speaker 1: When asked why he had signed the confession and confessed,
[50:57] Speaker 1: he said that the FBI threatened to point out inconsistencies
[51:01] Speaker 1: and statements made by his wife, Gloria, but he wanted
[51:03] Speaker 1: to keep her out of it. He just didn't want
[51:05] Speaker 1: her to have anything to do with it, so he
[51:07] Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to confess, so she doesn't. You know,
[51:10] Speaker 1: maybe she was lying for him, maybe she was covering
[51:13] Speaker 1: for him.
[51:15] Speaker 4: He also told prison doctors that he realized.
[51:17] Speaker 1: He said he realized that there were about fifty or
[51:20] Speaker 1: sixty people carried on the plane, but the number of
[51:23] Speaker 1: people to be killed made no difference to me, it
[51:26] Speaker 1: could have been a thousand.
[51:27] Speaker 2: When their times come. When their time comes, there's nothing
[51:30] Speaker 2: they can do about it.
[51:32] Speaker 1: It's almost like he's God, yeah and their time, when
[51:36] Speaker 1: really he had just decided.
[51:37] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's pretending that that was he was some
[51:40] Speaker 2: kind of like the arbiter of fate or something, or
[51:43] Speaker 2: just like, no, dude, you've just yeah.
[51:46] Speaker 1: The trial resulted in Colorado becoming the first state who
[51:50] Speaker 1: officially sanction the use of television cameras to broadcast criminal trials.
[51:54] Speaker 1: No federal statute at the time on the books that
[51:57] Speaker 1: made a crime to blow up an airplane because it
[51:59] Speaker 1: was so fucking knew, and that led directly to federal
[52:04] Speaker 1: laws criminalizing airline sabotage in the formation of the Federal
[52:08] Speaker 1: Aviation Administration at the time. Though on the day of
[52:11] Speaker 1: Jack's confession, they wanted to quickly prosecute Jack. The simplest
[52:16] Speaker 1: possible way was premeditated murder of a single victim, his mother,
[52:20] Speaker 1: so none of the other victims they couldn't. They didn't
[52:23] Speaker 1: try him for those. Despite the number of victims, he's
[52:27] Speaker 1: charged with only one kund of first degree murder. He
[52:30] Speaker 1: were canted as confession, but because of all the evidence,
[52:34] Speaker 1: he was found guilty attempted suicide and on May fifth,
[52:38] Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six, he was convicted of the death of
[52:43] Speaker 1: the murder, sentenced to death, executed in the gas chamber
[52:48] Speaker 1: in January of nineteen fifty seven, and before his execution,
[52:51] Speaker 1: he said about the bombing, as far as feeling remorse
[52:54] Speaker 1: for these people, I don't. I can't help it. Everybody
[52:58] Speaker 1: pays their way and takes such answers. That's just the
[53:01] Speaker 1: way it goes. And about his mother's murder, he said,
[53:04] Speaker 1: I wanted her to go. I watched her go off
[53:06] Speaker 1: for the last time. When she was getting on the plane,
[53:09] Speaker 1: I felt happier than I'd ever felt before in my life.
[53:13] Speaker 2: Dude.
[53:14] Speaker 1: And that's fucking our friend Jack Gilbert Graham in Flight
[53:18] Speaker 1: six twenty nine.
[53:19] Speaker 2: I like in those kind of quotes where you can
[53:21] Speaker 2: really it really almost surmises the insanity of the person,
[53:26] Speaker 2: where it's like you are totally cut off from empathy.
[53:30] Speaker 2: You don't give a fuck about anybody, but you're revenge.
[53:34] Speaker 1: Not even in a way of like you're about to die,
[53:36] Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Apologize to the family is even if
[53:40] Speaker 1: you don't fucking mean it, Like you can't even give
[53:43] Speaker 1: them some kind.
[53:44] Speaker 2: Of because he doesn't care. He doesn't have a connection
[53:48] Speaker 2: to care about those families.
[53:49] Speaker 4: It's always it's impossible for us to understand.
[53:52] Speaker 2: Well, and also it's but the thing I think it's
[53:54] Speaker 2: interesting is like family is the source of his insanity
[53:58] Speaker 2: or his damna. So he doesn't care about those families.
[54:02] Speaker 2: He never had a family. He's like, fuck your He's
[54:05] Speaker 2: probably more mad that they had family.
[54:06] Speaker 1: He's probably thinking that they feel the same way about
[54:09] Speaker 1: their families as he does about his, because he doesn't
[54:10] Speaker 1: know what it's like to feel any feelings about your.
[54:13] Speaker 2: Family, only just negative or shitty or like yeah, shitm crazy.
[54:17] Speaker 1: Oh and go look him up, go look at his photos. Look,
[54:19] Speaker 1: he looks like if our friend Matt wrong, Matt Bronger
[54:24] Speaker 1: was playing a yokel with a widow's peak. Oh like
[54:29] Speaker 1: Grease Backair. Yeah, our friend comedian Matt Bronger playing a
[54:33] Speaker 1: role as a yokel.
[54:36] Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, well that was good, thank you, thank you.
[54:40] Speaker 2: It's fun to base them on TV shows. Yeah, a
[54:43] Speaker 2: lot of very hard work gets done for you. Yeah,
[54:46] Speaker 2: and it's just a retail dude that they only set
[54:48] Speaker 2: it up.
[54:48] Speaker 1: So I knew the opposite stupid thing where I'm like,
[54:50] Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this hard one, and then it's like
[54:52] Speaker 1: it's so hard that nobody's ever made a documentary about
[54:54] Speaker 1: it except for some fucking person who has like they's
[54:57] Speaker 1: so you looked on YouTube for your murder and there's
[55:00] Speaker 1: just these people. And I don't want to insult other people,
[55:04] Speaker 1: but I am, uh, they make these like story they
[55:07] Speaker 1: tell the story on video with pictures and things like that,
[55:11] Speaker 1: but it's a computer voice.
[55:14] Speaker 4: Yeah, And then the murder when it's.
[55:17] Speaker 2: So weird, Well, I feel like it might be a
[55:20] Speaker 2: lot of there's like students. It feels to me like
[55:23] Speaker 2: students that have to do a presentation for a class
[55:26] Speaker 2: or something, because there's oftentimes the wording is very odd,
[55:30] Speaker 2: but it's almost like people are trying to sound news person. Yeah,
[55:35] Speaker 2: but it's the it's at that point, it's the the
[55:39] Speaker 2: automated race, which I'm like, just any human.
[55:44] Speaker 1: Can read the Wikipedia page. It doesn't matter. Someone's gonna
[55:47] Speaker 1: like your voice.
[55:48] Speaker 2: Just read it. Maybe they have a weird high voice
[55:50] Speaker 2: maybe or a strangely low voice.
[55:52] Speaker 1: Well maybe, I mean I have a fucking lisp and
[55:55] Speaker 1: a what's it called auto tune? No, what's it called
[56:00] Speaker 1: when you have like the thing or you.
[56:03] Speaker 2: Don't an Oh you're from California. Yeah, I have a
[56:07] Speaker 2: list in an auto tune. Never had a problem with
[56:10] Speaker 2: the lot of my voice this.
[56:11] Speaker 4: Entire time was auto tune.
[56:13] Speaker 2: It would be tough. That would be tough to keep
[56:16] Speaker 2: it natural. And okay, we're back. Are there updates for
[56:23] Speaker 2: this story?
[56:23] Speaker 1: No updates, although we were just talking about how the
[56:26] Speaker 1: awesome TV show A Crime to Remember did this story,
[56:30] Speaker 1: So go look that up.
[56:31] Speaker 3: It was really well done.
[56:33] Speaker 1: Just so you guys know, the thirty seven thousand, five
[56:36] Speaker 1: hundred dollars life insurance policy that Jack took out on
[56:38] Speaker 1: his mother would be worth today four hundred and fifty
[56:43] Speaker 1: three thousand dollars plus, which is a lot of money.
[56:48] Speaker 1: And also our episode title came from the story. Karen
[56:51] Speaker 1: says that selling insurance at the airport opens the door
[56:55] Speaker 1: to people who shouldn't be buying life insurance policies hither
[56:59] Speaker 1: and yawn, Yeah, I'd never heard before.
[57:01] Speaker 2: I don't care. I'm going to go ahead and throw
[57:04] Speaker 2: some old people talking at any chance I get.
[57:07] Speaker 3: I love it. Let's go see a picture after this.
[57:10] Speaker 1: It's a picture, all right, Let's get to Karen's fucking
[57:12] Speaker 1: story about son of Sam. Okay, yay, now I gotta
[57:23] Speaker 1: be told a story. I love going first because then
[57:24] Speaker 1: I get to sit back. I know, not gonna be
[57:26] Speaker 1: told a story, and you just get to relax. I went,
[57:31] Speaker 1: I don't know what I was doing. Here's what I
[57:33] Speaker 1: actually did. Okay, let me hear your process. Would you
[57:37] Speaker 1: want to go behind the scenes. I do, and just
[57:39] Speaker 1: go behind the music for a second to do welcome
[57:42] Speaker 1: pop up video time.
[57:43] Speaker 2: I wanted to do a supernatural murder, but that's like
[57:47] Speaker 2: a made up thing it is, essentially, but that's what
[57:50] Speaker 2: I wanted. I just wanted to be a little bit
[57:52] Speaker 2: the planet, a little bit, and so I eventually found
[57:55] Speaker 2: the story of a man named Carl Pruitt who found
[57:58] Speaker 2: and this was like in the thirties. He found his
[57:59] Speaker 2: wife in bed with another man. He strangles over a
[58:02] Speaker 2: rusty chain. Then he commits suicide. The family has him
[58:06] Speaker 2: buried far away. I wrote this whole fucking thing up
[58:10] Speaker 2: until I found buried far away. Uh and then a
[58:15] Speaker 2: kid people start noticing that there are rings appearing on
[58:19] Speaker 2: his gravestone. Rings, rings and concentric rings that are linked
[58:25] Speaker 2: like a chastic lay like a chain. So a bunch
[58:29] Speaker 2: of kids are playing in the cemetery and they a
[58:31] Speaker 2: boy throws a rock at the headstone. Great place to play,
[58:35] Speaker 2: by the way, Yeah, that's where the good times are.
[58:38] Speaker 2: He throws a rock at the headstone, chips it. They
[58:40] Speaker 2: all go to ride their bikes home. He falls off
[58:42] Speaker 2: his bike and the bike chain wraps around his back
[58:45] Speaker 2: and strangles him to time. Right, So when the mother
[58:47] Speaker 2: this is the season two of Stranger Things, the mother
[58:51] Speaker 2: finds out and here's all the town gossip of it
[58:55] Speaker 2: was because he was he desecrated the headstone of the killer,
[59:00] Speaker 2: of the chain killer. And so she goes down with
[59:03] Speaker 2: an axe to take the headstone apart. The next day
[59:06] Speaker 2: she's found hanging in her own clothesline. Oh my goodness.
[59:10] Speaker 2: So then it basically goes on and on. I'm like,
[59:12] Speaker 2: this is the best. This is going to be amazing.
[59:15] Speaker 2: I get to the end of the article and the
[59:18] Speaker 2: person who wrote the article begins to deconstruct ghost stories
[59:21] Speaker 2: in America. I know, oh, this is fake, Like Carl
[59:25] Speaker 2: Prutt never existed, this person never existed. Can't find any
[59:28] Speaker 2: of these people in any public record. And then I
[59:31] Speaker 2: had to start over. I was really mad because it
[59:34] Speaker 2: was so perfect and yet it was such a creepypasta
[59:38] Speaker 2: like oh, and then then these people, every single thing
[59:41] Speaker 2: was someone strangled with the chain if they tried to
[59:44] Speaker 2: touch the headstone. Jesus, I don't know how.
[59:46] Speaker 1: I don't know how you can find a murder that
[59:48] Speaker 1: gets you out of the murder world.
[59:51] Speaker 2: Well, no you can't. I'm just I don't even know
[59:53] Speaker 2: what I'm doing. So then I went all the way
[59:54] Speaker 2: in and I'm doing Son of Sam. Oh that was
[59:59] Speaker 2: not I thought was going to happen. I just fucking
[1:00:02] Speaker 2: turn that car around.
[1:00:03] Speaker 1: But you know why, you know, I understand it's because
[1:00:06] Speaker 1: he doesn't mutilate anyone. That's right where it's almost like
[1:00:09] Speaker 1: he listen, murder is murder and it's fucking horrible and awful.
[1:00:13] Speaker 1: Instead of Sam as a monster. But when you don't
[1:00:16] Speaker 1: have to talk about someone's for us, I don't mean
[1:00:19] Speaker 1: like they're certain murders, but when we don't have to
[1:00:21] Speaker 1: talk about women getting their boobs cut off, yes, and
[1:00:24] Speaker 1: being raped and savage, which I'm doing right now, it's
[1:00:29] Speaker 1: almost like a relief.
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: It is because it still qualifies, and he's very famous
[1:00:33] Speaker 2: and everybody knows who he is, but he did. He
[1:00:36] Speaker 2: was on a murder spree in the seventies that was
[1:00:39] Speaker 2: so strangely distant and odd disconnected, just totally disconnected and
[1:00:45] Speaker 2: yet very specific. He was like, I don't know if
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: a lot of people know this. I certainly didn't before
[1:00:49] Speaker 2: I started reading about it. He only shot women with long,
[1:00:54] Speaker 2: dark hair.
[1:00:54] Speaker 4: No, I didn't know that.
[1:00:55] Speaker 2: I didn't either. He's a total fucking ted Bundy in
[1:00:58] Speaker 2: that style. So it's just interesting, like it's it's a
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: it's definitely a thing where you can dip in, but
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: you don't have to go into it.
[1:01:05] Speaker 1: There's not even a stab which which is there? Let
[1:01:09] Speaker 1: me stop you Okay, you know what, Why don't you
[1:01:11] Speaker 1: do your murder? And I'll stop because that's what's interesting.
[1:01:15] Speaker 1: So he also was a product of an elicit affair
[1:01:21] Speaker 1: and his mother gave him away. Uh right after he
[1:01:25] Speaker 1: was born to.
[1:01:27] Speaker 2: A couple named Pearl and Nathan Berkowitz who lived in
[1:01:30] Speaker 2: the Bronx, and he was a troubled youth. Neighbors say
[1:01:34] Speaker 2: he was a bully. He was he was an asshole,
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: he was really spoiled. He was really difficult and uh,
[1:01:43] Speaker 2: he from an early age began engaging in petty larceny
[1:01:46] Speaker 2: and arsons arson our. Right, So there's I couldn't find anything.
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: I actually looked it up specifically of like, did something
[1:01:57] Speaker 2: happen to him that he never talked about? But his
[1:02:02] Speaker 2: mother died of breast cancer when he was fourteen. That's it, man,
[1:02:05] Speaker 2: that's got to be a huge well shock. Then his
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: father remarries. He doesn't like his new stepmother, so in
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one, when he's eighteen, he joins the army
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: and he serves for four years. He's given an honorary
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: discharge in nineteen seventy four, and while he's serving in
[1:02:22] Speaker 2: the army, he has his first and only sexual encounter
[1:02:26] Speaker 2: with a sex worker.
[1:02:27] Speaker 3: Huh.
[1:02:29] Speaker 2: The result of that encounter gave him a venereal disease. Shit,
[1:02:34] Speaker 2: and the psychiatrist or whoever say that after that, whoever
[1:02:41] Speaker 2: word on the street was that because of that experienced
[1:02:47] Speaker 2: specific experience, he became enraged with women.
[1:02:52] Speaker 1: Which we know can't be true. Like you had that
[1:02:55] Speaker 1: boiling down somewhere ready to burst. It's not like with women.
[1:03:00] Speaker 1: And then you're like, oh shit, crabs.
[1:03:02] Speaker 2: No exactly right, Well, yeah, and that's probably not crabs.
[1:03:05] Speaker 2: I don't know, shit, crabs, women, it's already a problem.
[1:03:11] Speaker 2: He's one of those people that, yeah, if you're a
[1:03:13] Speaker 2: bully that doesn't get along in as an asshole everybody,
[1:03:16] Speaker 2: you're not also a lady killer. That's probably not happening, right.
[1:03:21] Speaker 1: I just love that they can blame it on this
[1:03:23] Speaker 1: one like they're blaming it on the woman, right, you.
[1:03:26] Speaker 2: Know what I mean, which is just like of course. Also,
[1:03:29] Speaker 2: when he gets out of the army, he looks up
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: his birth mother, and his birth mother explains how she
[1:03:35] Speaker 2: gave him away because he was illegitimate. A forensic anthropologist,
[1:03:39] Speaker 2: Elliot Layton described this as the primary crisis of his life.
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: Finding out that he was an illegitimate child that his
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: father didn't want him shattered his sense of identity. On
[1:03:50] Speaker 2: top of that, the old VD no crabs that he
[1:03:54] Speaker 2: started a spate of arson fires in the early seventies.
[1:04:00] Speaker 2: He actually, well, well we can talk about this later,
[1:04:03] Speaker 2: but that was his first crime was arson and he
[1:04:05] Speaker 2: would go and light these fires all over the Bronx
[1:04:08] Speaker 2: and and the surrounding area. If only I knew what
[1:04:13] Speaker 2: that what city is that in Manhattan? Uh's no, he
[1:04:17] Speaker 2: kept it over in like in his in the Bronx.
[1:04:19] Speaker 1: Eat and burrows other boroughs, other boroughs, and then other
[1:04:22] Speaker 1: he burrows Brooklyn.
[1:04:24] Speaker 4: Let's say, Brooklyn, there's Queens.
[1:04:26] Speaker 2: There's Queens, and Queens comes up quite a bit in
[1:04:28] Speaker 2: this city. Go to Long Island. I don't know. I
[1:04:30] Speaker 2: doubt he would make that drive. Okay, he did become
[1:04:33] Speaker 2: a mailman. So Christmas of nineteen seventy five, he stebs
[1:04:38] Speaker 2: two women with a hunting knight on the streets of
[1:04:40] Speaker 2: New York City. Jesus, but they fight back. This is
[1:04:43] Speaker 2: Christmas Eve night. They fight back and he flee. He
[1:04:47] Speaker 2: flees the scene. They're not killed. Wow, that's his first attempt.
[1:04:50] Speaker 2: And that's when he switches over to a forty four
[1:04:53] Speaker 2: caliber bulldog snubnosed shotgun.
[1:04:58] Speaker 4: Noverrekne of a handgun a gun.
[1:05:00] Speaker 2: It's a forty four caliber gun that he uses for
[1:05:02] Speaker 2: the rest of his time. So July twenty ninth, nineteen
[1:05:06] Speaker 2: seventy six, this is in Pelham Bay. The Bronx one
[1:05:09] Speaker 2: ten Am and Donna Lauria who's eighteen and Jody Valenteo's nineteen,
[1:05:13] Speaker 2: are sitting in Jody Valenti's car outside Donna Laurier's apartment
[1:05:17] Speaker 2: and they're talking about the night they just spent at
[1:05:20] Speaker 2: Peach Trees, which was the local disco. Oh, peach Trees. Oh,
[1:05:24] Speaker 2: this is if you see the movie Sounder Sam, the
[1:05:26] Speaker 2: Spike Lee movie starring John Leguizamo. It's actually really hilarious
[1:05:30] Speaker 2: and great because disco exploded like in this period of time,
[1:05:36] Speaker 2: and so you know around New York City people were
[1:05:40] Speaker 2: just at discos every night, and that lifestyle was like
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: a big just like it's.
[1:05:43] Speaker 1: Just clubbing, yes, with disco music, it's clubbing with polyester.
[1:05:47] Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm so glad. I hope when we go
[1:05:50] Speaker 1: back in time we don't end up there.
[1:05:51] Speaker 2: I mean I can feather my hair.
[1:05:54] Speaker 1: So I feel, okay, it probably be a good disco queen.
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: I might be good, but I don't want I don't
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: want to show my arms, and that's going to be
[1:06:04] Speaker 2: a big problem at the disco.
[1:06:05] Speaker 1: I hate disco music and cocaine. So I feel like
[1:06:08] Speaker 1: i'd just be like in like sitting in the corner
[1:06:10] Speaker 1: and being like, can we go?
[1:06:11] Speaker 2: We're such opposites, I know, coming out to a dive bar. Please. Okay.
[1:06:17] Speaker 2: So they were at Peachtrees. They're sitting in the car
[1:06:19] Speaker 2: talking about it. Jody opens the car door to get
[1:06:22] Speaker 2: out to walk up to her house and sees a
[1:06:24] Speaker 2: man walking really fast toward the car. That's so scary.
[1:06:28] Speaker 4: Image, it's so scary.
[1:06:30] Speaker 1: A man walking fast towards you is like just punch
[1:06:33] Speaker 1: at one in the morning, one in the morning, right
[1:06:35] Speaker 1: outside your house.
[1:06:36] Speaker 2: Hunch. He pulls a forty four caliber handgun out of
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: the paper bag, kneels down and fires five times into
[1:06:43] Speaker 2: the car. Donald Loria was hit in the neck and
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: killed instantly. Jody V. Lunt, he was hitting the thigh
[1:06:49] Speaker 2: and then she leaned on the horn and the attacker
[1:06:52] Speaker 2: turned and walked quickly away, which is also creepy.
[1:06:55] Speaker 1: Yeah that you don't run because you know not to
[1:06:57] Speaker 1: run because that's suspicious.
[1:06:58] Speaker 2: Yep, you just walk quick away like your business is
[1:07:01] Speaker 2: done here, Okay. So Jodie describes him as a white
[1:07:04] Speaker 2: male in his thirties with a fair complexion, about five
[1:07:06] Speaker 2: nine weigh one hundred and sixty pounds, short, dark curly
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: hair in the quote maud style.
[1:07:11] Speaker 1: Good for her for knowing all that, like remembering all
[1:07:13] Speaker 1: these details.
[1:07:14] Speaker 2: So also, Laura's father also saw him and told the police.
[1:07:20] Speaker 2: A similar looking man was sitting in a yellow compact car.
[1:07:23] Speaker 2: How all night. He had been cruising the area hours
[1:07:28] Speaker 2: before the shooting, and several neighbors actually saw a man
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: in a yellow car cruise in the area. So about
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: three months later, Carl de Naro, who is twenty, and
[1:07:38] Speaker 2: Rosemary Keenan the old Italian Irish Combination fire eighteen, they
[1:07:44] Speaker 2: were talking outside Keenan's house when, according to Keenan, it
[1:07:48] Speaker 2: felt like the car exploded. So what had happened was
[1:07:53] Speaker 2: that car was fired on five times. Naro, Carl de Naro,
[1:07:58] Speaker 2: who was in the driver's seat, put into driving speeds
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: away and only later do they realize he's been shot
[1:08:05] Speaker 2: in the head.
[1:08:06] Speaker 3: Oh my god.
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: He ended up getting he survived. He ended up having
[1:08:10] Speaker 2: to get a plate in his head just to replace
[1:08:12] Speaker 2: the skull, the part of his skull. That was wow.
[1:08:18] Speaker 2: The police did not attack DIY did not link this
[1:08:21] Speaker 2: attack to the Lauria Valenti attack because they were in
[1:08:24] Speaker 2: two different precincts, so they were just separate shootings.
[1:08:28] Speaker 4: Weird, right, crazy, Yeah, but.
[1:08:31] Speaker 2: I mean this was New York in the late seventies,
[1:08:33] Speaker 2: so there was tons of crimes. Yeah, that's true. But
[1:08:36] Speaker 2: Rosemary Keenan's father was a New York city. I can't
[1:08:40] Speaker 2: remember if his detective or a police officer, but basically,
[1:08:44] Speaker 2: once the daughter of one of their own, they turned
[1:08:48] Speaker 2: up the intensity on this specific investigation and she didn't die.
[1:08:53] Speaker 2: She didn't die. Neither of them died, but they could
[1:08:56] Speaker 2: They didn't have that much evidence. There wasn't a lot
[1:08:59] Speaker 2: to go on. So a month later, Donna Demassi and
[1:09:03] Speaker 2: Joanne Lomino had just walked home from a movie theater
[1:09:06] Speaker 2: and they were talking on Joanne's front porch and they
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: see a man in army fatigues approaching them.
[1:09:12] Speaker 4: Well, I guess it's like Vietnam. So it's not that weird.
[1:09:14] Speaker 2: I mean, not really, But here's what's weird. Sort I
[1:09:18] Speaker 2: hate he's asking for directions in a high pitched voice
[1:09:24] Speaker 2: before he finished it, so he starts asking the question.
[1:09:26] Speaker 2: Before he finishes a sentence, he pulls out the gun
[1:09:29] Speaker 2: and shoots both of them. Donna was shot in the
[1:09:32] Speaker 2: neck but recovered. Joanne's hitting a spine and shoes paralyzed.
[1:09:37] Speaker 2: A neighbor claims to have seen a blonde man running
[1:09:39] Speaker 2: away from the scene clutching a gun. Okay, So January thirtieth,
[1:09:43] Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven, this is at the Forest Hills Long
[1:09:46] Speaker 2: Island Railroad station in Queens at two forty in the morning.
[1:09:51] Speaker 2: Christina Frond and her fiance John Deel had just seen
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: Rocky and they were about to go to a disco.
[1:09:57] Speaker 2: It's at a dance hall in Wikipedia, but I would
[1:09:59] Speaker 2: assume that means a disco. And as they're sitting in
[1:10:04] Speaker 2: the car, three gun shots. Someone shoots into the car
[1:10:07] Speaker 2: three times in a panic. Deal drives away. He suffered
[1:10:11] Speaker 2: minor superficial injuries, but Christina Frond was shot. A friend
[1:10:16] Speaker 2: was shot twice and died several hours later in the hospital.
[1:10:20] Speaker 2: Neither of them saw their attacker. So now the police
[1:10:25] Speaker 2: make their first public acknowledgment that the Front Deal shooting
[1:10:29] Speaker 2: was similar to the other incidents and all of the
[1:10:32] Speaker 2: crimes could be associated because all of the victims had
[1:10:35] Speaker 2: been struck with forty four caliber bullets. The shootings seemed
[1:10:38] Speaker 2: to target young women with long black hair, and the
[1:10:42] Speaker 2: police announced that they were looking for multiple suspects.
[1:10:46] Speaker 1: Can you imagine, like, let's say that happen right now
[1:10:49] Speaker 1: in La If that was going on, I wouldn't want
[1:10:52] Speaker 1: to leave the house.
[1:10:53] Speaker 2: Do you know that? Actually it wasn't here, but it
[1:10:56] Speaker 2: was a little while later, after a couple more of
[1:10:58] Speaker 2: these murders, when they when that fact of that it
[1:11:03] Speaker 2: was women with long, dark hair. There was a rush
[1:11:08] Speaker 2: on women getting their hair cut really short, like Dorothy
[1:11:12] Speaker 2: Hamill and died lighter. And that's why that trend. I mean,
[1:11:16] Speaker 2: like that's in New York City. All women got their
[1:11:19] Speaker 2: hair cut and died. And they said that there was
[1:11:21] Speaker 2: a shortage of wigs at beauty supply stores because everyone
[1:11:25] Speaker 2: was just going bat shit, like in one day. Once
[1:11:28] Speaker 2: they made that announcement, everyone got their hair cut. Yeah,
[1:11:30] Speaker 2: I love that idea. Okay. So March eighth, Columbia College
[1:11:34] Speaker 2: is still nineteen seventy seven. At seven thirty in the evening,
[1:11:37] Speaker 2: Virginia vokes shirt vokes cher Richian walks home from her
[1:11:45] Speaker 2: classes at Columbia. A man walks toward her, and when
[1:11:48] Speaker 2: he gets close, he pulls out a gun and fires
[1:11:50] Speaker 2: into her face. She put up her books to protect herself,
[1:11:54] Speaker 2: but she was killed in stilly and moments later a neighbor,
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: one of her neighbors, rounds the corner. He hears the gunshots,
[1:12:02] Speaker 2: and then he nearly collides with the person who he
[1:12:05] Speaker 2: described as a short husky boy. Aged sixteen to eighteen,
[1:12:10] Speaker 2: clean shaven, wearing a sweater and a watchcap, sprinting away
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: from the scene, and other neighbors matching that same description
[1:12:22] Speaker 2: reported a teenager loitering in the area for about an
[1:12:26] Speaker 2: hour before the shooting. In the following days, the media
[1:12:30] Speaker 2: report police claims that this quote chubby teenager was the suspect.
[1:12:35] Speaker 2: There are no direct witnesses to her murder, and she
[1:12:38] Speaker 2: lived about a block away from where Christine Freud and
[1:12:41] Speaker 2: her fiancee John Deal were shot. March tenth, nineteen seventy seven,
[1:12:46] Speaker 2: NYPD holds a press conference stating that the weapon used
[1:12:49] Speaker 2: in Virginia Volkesshirt Cherrians Voscar Richians I think is Voscar
[1:12:57] Speaker 2: Richians murder is also a forty four Bulldog, the same
[1:13:01] Speaker 2: weapon used in all the other shootings. And of course
[1:13:05] Speaker 2: this whole story, the New York Daily News and the
[1:13:09] Speaker 2: Post go crazy on the on the daily it's just constant,
[1:13:12] Speaker 2: constant R page. Fine, what's it called fear mongering? Well
[1:13:17] Speaker 2: you should be frayed. But yeah, yeah, well, I mean
[1:13:18] Speaker 2: they were finally like justified. It also went international. They
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: were naming there's the name in the Wikipedia article. Like
[1:13:25] Speaker 2: all the you know, the Vatican had an article about
[1:13:27] Speaker 2: it in the Vatican newspaper or whatever. So April seventeenth,
[1:13:32] Speaker 2: this is a month later. Basically in the Bronx, it's
[1:13:36] Speaker 2: three am and Valentina Suriani, who's eighteen, and Alexander Esau
[1:13:42] Speaker 2: who's twenty, are sitting in Valentina's car, kissing and each
[1:13:46] Speaker 2: one is shot twice. Soriani died instantly, Esau died a
[1:13:49] Speaker 2: few a few hours later in the hospital. And it's
[1:13:52] Speaker 2: says again it's a forty four and they were only
[1:13:55] Speaker 2: parked a few blocks away from the Lauria Valenti shooting.
[1:14:00] Speaker 2: So then at the crime scene they find a handwritten
[1:14:03] Speaker 2: letter and it's from the killer and it's addressed to
[1:14:08] Speaker 2: police Captain Joseph Barelli. And this is where the name
[1:14:14] Speaker 2: son of Sam comes from. Is this letter? Okay? So
[1:14:19] Speaker 2: basically it reads I'll do I'm just going to do pieces.
[1:14:21] Speaker 2: Because it's really long. It starts out, I am deeply
[1:14:24] Speaker 2: hurt by you're calling me a woman hater. I am not,
[1:14:27] Speaker 2: but I am a monster. I am the son of Sam.
[1:14:30] Speaker 2: I am a little brat when father, When father Sam
[1:14:33] Speaker 2: gets drunk, he gets mean, he beats his family. Sometimes
[1:14:38] Speaker 2: he ties me up to the back of the house.
[1:14:40] Speaker 2: Other times he locks me in the garage. Sam loves
[1:14:42] Speaker 2: to drink blood, go out and kill commands father Sam
[1:14:46] Speaker 2: behind our house some rest. I don't know this at all.
[1:14:51] Speaker 2: It's just fucking crazy nonsers. Yeah, but it ends like this.
[1:14:57] Speaker 2: I want to make love to the world. I love people.
[1:15:00] Speaker 2: I don't belong on earth. Return me to yahoos to
[1:15:06] Speaker 2: the people of Queen's. I love you, and I want
[1:15:09] Speaker 2: to wish all of you a happy Easter the ship.
[1:15:12] Speaker 2: May God bless you in this life and then the next.
[1:15:14] Speaker 2: And for now I say goodbye and good night. Police.
[1:15:17] Speaker 2: Let me haunt you with these words. I'll be back.
[1:15:20] Speaker 2: I'll be back to be interrupt to be interpreted as
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: bang bang bang bank bang uh yours and murder mister monster.
[1:15:30] Speaker 2: So I am that is I can't even Yeah, it's nuts.
[1:15:37] Speaker 1: That was like even scarier to them that were like, oh,
[1:15:40] Speaker 1: we're not This isn't a calculated person. This is a
[1:15:43] Speaker 1: fucking lunatic. How are we going to track down a
[1:15:46] Speaker 1: lunatic because you can't use logic?
[1:15:48] Speaker 2: That's right. Also, yeah, that that wasn't nailed. It was
[1:15:53] Speaker 2: left at the murder scene. So it's somebody that kills
[1:15:55] Speaker 2: people and then drops something intentionally.
[1:15:57] Speaker 1: Totally all of it is he's them, Yeah, Jesus.
[1:16:02] Speaker 2: So several psychiatrists are consulted and there's a psychological profile
[1:16:07] Speaker 2: drawn up based on this letter, and he's described as neurotic,
[1:16:11] Speaker 2: probably suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, who believes himself to be
[1:16:15] Speaker 2: the victim of demonic possession. So May thirtieth, nineteen seventy seven.
[1:16:21] Speaker 2: So at that time, the Daily News had a columnist,
[1:16:25] Speaker 2: very famous man named Jimmy Breslin, who was like super
[1:16:28] Speaker 2: famous in New York. A lot of people out not
[1:16:30] Speaker 2: that many people outside know him, but he was like
[1:16:33] Speaker 2: he was like one of those like tough, you know
[1:16:35] Speaker 2: reporters of New York that I was, you know, hard
[1:16:38] Speaker 2: boiled he was. I would call him hard boiled. Yeah,
[1:16:41] Speaker 2: oh way, someone to call me hard boiled one day.
[1:16:43] Speaker 2: They will, they will. So the Son of Sam sends
[1:16:48] Speaker 2: Jimmy Breslin a letter, oh shit, And on the back
[1:16:52] Speaker 2: of the envelope he wrote the phrases blood and family,
[1:16:56] Speaker 2: darkness and death, absolute depravity, and just forty four with
[1:17:02] Speaker 2: a dot in front of him, So like forty four
[1:17:03] Speaker 2: caliber and then I'll just read you how it starts,
[1:17:06] Speaker 2: because it's just more blather. But it starts. Hello from
[1:17:09] Speaker 2: the gutters of NYC, which are filled with dog manure, vomit,
[1:17:12] Speaker 2: stale wine, urine, and blood. I'm gonna say wrong. I
[1:17:15] Speaker 2: know he's fucking dead on It's summertime, so he's probably
[1:17:19] Speaker 2: very frustrated. Hello from the sewers of NYC, which swallow
[1:17:23] Speaker 2: up these delicacies when they are washed away Jesus by
[1:17:26] Speaker 2: the sweeper trucks. Hello from the cracks and the sidewalks
[1:17:29] Speaker 2: of NYC, And from all the ants that dwell in
[1:17:32] Speaker 2: these cracks and feed in the dried blood of the
[1:17:34] Speaker 2: dead that is settled settled into these cracks.
[1:17:37] Speaker 4: This is poetry, is it?
[1:17:39] Speaker 2: JB. I'm just dropping you a line to let you
[1:17:42] Speaker 2: know that I appreciate your interest in those recent and
[1:17:44] Speaker 2: horrendous forty four caliber killings. I also want to tell
[1:17:47] Speaker 2: you that I read your column daily and I find
[1:17:49] Speaker 2: it quite informative. Tell me, Jim, what will you have
[1:17:52] Speaker 2: for July twenty nine? Mm hmm? See this one? He
[1:17:57] Speaker 2: seems smart right, almost as if he might be putting
[1:18:02] Speaker 2: on an ask sure of some kind. Okay, so the
[1:18:07] Speaker 2: daily News publishes this letter a week after they get
[1:18:11] Speaker 2: it with the column from Jimmy Breslin urging the killer
[1:18:15] Speaker 2: to surrender himself. And this article made that day's paper
[1:18:20] Speaker 2: the highest selling edition of the Daily News ever. They
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: sold more than one point one million. Wow. Uh oh.
[1:18:29] Speaker 2: And it's after that that with Jimmy Breslam's column, this
[1:18:33] Speaker 2: is when all the women get their haircut, which I just.
[1:18:35] Speaker 1: That's in the movie too. Yeah, and it's hilarious. I
[1:18:38] Speaker 1: saw it when it came out. I don't remember it.
[1:18:40] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good movie. I liked it.
[1:18:42] Speaker 1: I just remember that from Ted Bundy too, Like, didn't
[1:18:44] Speaker 1: a bunch of girls? Yes, who had the same haircut?
[1:18:46] Speaker 1: Hell yeah, change that fucking shit. Hey highlights everybody? Yeah,
[1:18:50] Speaker 1: how about a high highlight, Bob?
[1:18:52] Speaker 2: Yeah right. I also love Son of Summer of Sam
[1:18:55] Speaker 2: the movie because it's it's almost entirely focused on disco. Yeah.
[1:19:00] Speaker 2: The murders almost seem like an after The murders.
[1:19:03] Speaker 1: Almost seem like they're powering disco, you know what I mean?
[1:19:07] Speaker 1: Like disco is a response to the murders.
[1:19:10] Speaker 2: That's right, or disco is because the murders are creating disco.
[1:19:16] Speaker 4: Listen, John like Wizamo, is that just the dream?
[1:19:20] Speaker 2: Listen, did you want to finish that? Look? Okay, look,
[1:19:26] Speaker 2: oh no, that's it. I interrupted you to then say nothing. Okay.
[1:19:32] Speaker 2: So now we're in July June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven.
[1:19:35] Speaker 2: This is Bayside, Queens. So yeah, it's like for people
[1:19:41] Speaker 2: I am from California. So when we talk about all
[1:19:44] Speaker 2: these different parts of all these different boroughs in New York,
[1:19:48] Speaker 2: Queens is a borough. Basize is a part of Queen's okay,
[1:19:51] Speaker 2: right right? I mean the Bronx is a borough. And
[1:19:54] Speaker 2: then the part of the Bronx that I.
[1:19:55] Speaker 1: Was talking before, the Forest Hills, Long Island, like the
[1:19:58] Speaker 1: Upper east Side is part of my Manhattan.
[1:20:00] Speaker 2: Yeah, it's own neighborhood. Right yeah, Manhattan's a burrow. And
[1:20:04] Speaker 2: then the Upper Eastside part of that Brook.
[1:20:06] Speaker 1: Williamsburg is like, let's go on for an hour and
[1:20:09] Speaker 1: they neighborhood.
[1:20:10] Speaker 2: I'm going to say the wrong thing for sure here
[1:20:13] Speaker 2: and all it can picture the people I know who
[1:20:15] Speaker 2: live in New York being very mad at me. Well,
[1:20:17] Speaker 2: do I think they're better than us? Also, maybe I'm
[1:20:20] Speaker 2: doing it for attention. Maybe I want you to be
[1:20:22] Speaker 2: mad at me maybe I like it all right. The
[1:20:26] Speaker 2: morning of June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven, it's three am,
[1:20:29] Speaker 2: Judy Placido and sal Lupo, which that I think Salopo
[1:20:33] Speaker 2: might have been the main character in Summer of Sam. Oh,
[1:20:37] Speaker 2: it just sounds familiar to Okay, but I could be
[1:20:39] Speaker 2: making it up.
[1:20:40] Speaker 1: No, I trust you on name recognition. This is where
[1:20:43] Speaker 1: that all falls brock. Yeah, okay.
[1:20:45] Speaker 2: They have just left the Elephis Disco and they're sitting
[1:20:49] Speaker 2: in the car and the cars hit by three three
[1:20:53] Speaker 2: gun gunshop blasts. So Salalupo is wounded in the right forearm,
[1:21:00] Speaker 2: Judy Placido is shot in the right temple, in the
[1:21:03] Speaker 2: shoulder and in the back of the neck. They both survive,
[1:21:07] Speaker 2: which is incredible, these people who are surviving these.
[1:21:10] Speaker 1: Mortal up close gun blasts. Yeah, it's just bananas. It's crazy.
[1:21:16] Speaker 2: So sal Lupo tells the police they had just been
[1:21:20] Speaker 2: discussing the case of Son of Sam right before the
[1:21:24] Speaker 2: gunshots hit. Okay, So about a month later, it's July
[1:21:30] Speaker 2: thirty first, nineteen seventy seven. Stacey Moskowitz, who doesn't know
[1:21:34] Speaker 2: skit Stacey Moskowitz, And I mean like the second I
[1:21:36] Speaker 2: read that name, I was like, I went to Junior
[1:21:38] Speaker 2: highwaver So Stacey and her boyfriend Bobby Violante are taking
[1:21:43] Speaker 2: a walk in the park late at night, very brave,
[1:21:46] Speaker 2: but they go back to their car when they see
[1:21:48] Speaker 2: a man watching them. Oh no. But then when they
[1:21:51] Speaker 2: get back into the car, they were so into each
[1:21:54] Speaker 2: other that they start making out, so they don't leave
[1:21:56] Speaker 2: right away. They're kissing in the car when they're hit
[1:21:59] Speaker 2: by bullet. Stacey Moskowitz was shot once in the head.
[1:22:03] Speaker 2: Bobby Violante had been shot twice in the face. Stacy
[1:22:07] Speaker 2: was killed, while Bobby Violante would survive, but he lost
[1:22:11] Speaker 2: most of his vision, but he survived from being shot
[1:22:13] Speaker 2: in the head.
[1:22:15] Speaker 4: So these people in the fucking burrows have some survivability.
[1:22:19] Speaker 2: It's for real. I mean, it's the New York City, baby, yeah,
[1:22:23] Speaker 2: uh okay. So this is the shooting that brings out
[1:22:26] Speaker 2: the most witnesses of any of the other Son of
[1:22:29] Speaker 2: Sam murders. There was actually a direct eyewitness. So during
[1:22:33] Speaker 2: the shooting, nineteen year old Tommy Zeno was parked three
[1:22:37] Speaker 2: cars down or three cars in front of Bobby Violante's vehicle,
[1:22:42] Speaker 2: and moments before the shooting Zano caught peripheral glimpse of
[1:22:46] Speaker 2: the shooter's approach and then happened to glance in his
[1:22:48] Speaker 2: rear view mirror just in time to see the actual shooting.
[1:22:51] Speaker 2: Oh my god. He clearly saw the perpetrator for several
[1:22:54] Speaker 2: seconds due to a bright street light in the full moon,
[1:22:57] Speaker 2: and later described him as being twenty five to thirty
[1:23:00] Speaker 2: years old, five foot seven to five foot nine inches,
[1:23:03] Speaker 2: with shaggy hair that was dark blonde or light brown.
[1:23:07] Speaker 2: But he said that the shooter's hair looked like a wig.
[1:23:11] Speaker 2: So about a minute after the shooting, a woman in
[1:23:12] Speaker 2: her boyfriend's car on the other side of the park
[1:23:15] Speaker 2: saw a white male wearing a light colored sheep nylon
[1:23:19] Speaker 2: wig sprinting out of the park and get into a
[1:23:22] Speaker 2: small and he got into a small, light colored car
[1:23:25] Speaker 2: that drove away, and she said he looked just like
[1:23:28] Speaker 2: he just robbed a bank. And she also got part
[1:23:32] Speaker 2: of his license wow four gur or four GVR. There
[1:23:37] Speaker 2: were other witnesses, one including a woman who saw light
[1:23:39] Speaker 2: cars speed away from the park twenty seconds after the gunshots,
[1:23:43] Speaker 2: and at least two witnesses who described a yellow Volkswagen
[1:23:46] Speaker 2: driving quickly from the neighborhood with its lights off. One
[1:23:51] Speaker 2: of a neighborhood residents. Here's the gunshots. Here's Bobby Violante's
[1:23:56] Speaker 2: calls for help. Glances out her apartment window to see
[1:23:58] Speaker 2: a man walking casually away from the crime scene while
[1:24:02] Speaker 2: everyone else was running toward the sounds of the screaming.
[1:24:05] Speaker 2: And I'm I'm so excited right now. This is like
[1:24:08] Speaker 2: so tense. Yes, and multiple other residents. So this he
[1:24:14] Speaker 2: was seen by tons of people. That night, they witnessed
[1:24:17] Speaker 2: a scruffy looking man with dark stringing hair and stubble
[1:24:20] Speaker 2: driving a small yellow car recklessly away from the scene.
[1:24:24] Speaker 2: He almost crashed into a car he ran a red light,
[1:24:27] Speaker 2: almost crashed into the guy. The guy started following him
[1:24:30] Speaker 2: because he was so pissed that the guy almost killed him,
[1:24:32] Speaker 2: but he he could only he only followed him so far,
[1:24:36] Speaker 2: and then he lost him. And then later he found
[1:24:39] Speaker 2: that it was son of Sam Okay. So on the
[1:24:44] Speaker 2: same night, local resident Cecilia Davis is walking her dog.
[1:24:48] Speaker 2: This is this is like the woman that brings it
[1:24:51] Speaker 2: all together, which I love. Cecilia, She's walking her dog
[1:24:55] Speaker 2: at the scene of the Mosquwitz Violante shooting. So she
[1:24:59] Speaker 2: sees patrol officer Michael Katano ticket a car, a yellow
[1:25:04] Speaker 2: car by a fire hydrant, and then moments after that
[1:25:08] Speaker 2: cop left, a young man walks past her and studies
[1:25:12] Speaker 2: her with some interest, and she feels concerned because he's
[1:25:15] Speaker 2: got a dark object in his hand, so she said
[1:25:20] Speaker 2: he was wielding a dark object. She doesn't know what
[1:25:22] Speaker 2: it is. She just runs home, only to hear shots
[1:25:24] Speaker 2: fired moments later, so she calls the police. She doesn't
[1:25:30] Speaker 2: say anything for four days, and then she calls the
[1:25:32] Speaker 2: police and they start checking every car that got ticketed
[1:25:37] Speaker 2: that night in that area. Fucking chances man.
[1:25:40] Speaker 1: And not only did they ticket it, but someone saw
[1:25:42] Speaker 1: it happen, yep, and then knew about the murders.
[1:25:45] Speaker 2: And someone saw what she saw happen was a guy
[1:25:49] Speaker 2: that gave her weird vibe totally, and then she put
[1:25:52] Speaker 2: all of it together where it's like, yeah, you got
[1:25:54] Speaker 2: away from the man that was endangering you, then you
[1:25:58] Speaker 2: stayed with it. We missed something and then reported it
[1:26:01] Speaker 2: to love it. Way to go to Cecilia and her
[1:26:05] Speaker 2: dog Marty. Most of the dog Marty.
[1:26:12] Speaker 4: I'm so excited that that was actually the dogs.
[1:26:16] Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, sorry to death. Okay, so the next
[1:26:19] Speaker 2: day police investigate. They go and they checker Berkowitz's carcase
[1:26:24] Speaker 2: it's one of the sea that got ticketed that night,
[1:26:27] Speaker 2: and they see it's parked outside his apartment building building
[1:26:31] Speaker 2: at thirty five Pine Street in Yonkers, and they see
[1:26:34] Speaker 2: there's a rifle in the backseat. What huh, how'd your rifle? Yeah? Right,
[1:26:39] Speaker 2: So they search the car. They're like, that's probable cause.
[1:26:42] Speaker 2: They search the car and they find a Duffel bag
[1:26:44] Speaker 2: filled with ammunition, maps of the crime scenes, a threatening
[1:26:47] Speaker 2: letter addressed to Inspector Timothy Dowd of the Omega Task Force,
[1:26:52] Speaker 2: so they know they probably have their man together. They
[1:26:56] Speaker 2: put in a request for a search warrant, but they
[1:26:59] Speaker 2: know they they're very concerned with going into his apartment
[1:27:03] Speaker 2: without having it because they don't want to lose the case.
[1:27:06] Speaker 2: So they stand out. They wait outside David Berkowitz's apartment
[1:27:10] Speaker 2: until ten o'clock at night, and when he comes out
[1:27:15] Speaker 2: and gets into his car, and he had a paper
[1:27:18] Speaker 2: bag with him and that forty four was inside the bar.
[1:27:21] Speaker 2: Oh my god. He gets in the car, sits down,
[1:27:24] Speaker 2: and then Detective John Follo Tico approaches the driver's side
[1:27:29] Speaker 2: and puts the gun right against right next to Berkowitz's temple,
[1:27:33] Speaker 2: and the detective sergeant William Gardella covers from the passenger
[1:27:37] Speaker 2: side with his gun inside the car, and David Burkowitz
[1:27:40] Speaker 2: has taken into castody for the son of Sam murders.
[1:27:44] Speaker 2: They say, it's reported that he was very calm and
[1:27:47] Speaker 2: very serene, almost seemed happy. Wow. So when they search
[1:27:52] Speaker 2: his apartment the next day, Apartment seventy, they find the
[1:27:55] Speaker 2: walls are covered in satanic graffiti. The whole apartment is
[1:27:59] Speaker 2: a complet mass. There's liquor bottles everywhere, And they also
[1:28:03] Speaker 2: find three stenographers notebooks where Berkowitz had meticulously recorded hundreds
[1:28:10] Speaker 2: of arson fires that he had set hundreds. Yes, he
[1:28:13] Speaker 2: had been recording it since he was twenty one. Some
[1:28:16] Speaker 2: sources allege that the number of arson fires he recorded
[1:28:20] Speaker 2: was over fourteen hundred. Yeah. Does he recorded or set well?
[1:28:26] Speaker 2: He wrote them into these notebooks. Yeah, And they believe
[1:28:30] Speaker 2: that they correspond to real fires that happened around Oh
[1:28:33] Speaker 2: my god, the Bronx and Queens and Manhattan, Manhattan, Brooklyn.
[1:28:39] Speaker 2: Don't for certainly, don't forget Long Island is Long Island
[1:28:42] Speaker 2: A Burrow. I think so what about Coney Islands. I
[1:28:47] Speaker 2: think that's a neighborhood. And what about the islands where
[1:28:51] Speaker 2: the statue of Liberty lives?
[1:28:52] Speaker 4: Oh you mean Liberty Island.
[1:28:55] Speaker 2: Freedom Island? All right now, people are legit mad, like
[1:29:00] Speaker 2: even they even they know. He is questioned for half
[1:29:06] Speaker 2: an hour and then immediately cops to everything and explains
[1:29:09] Speaker 2: to the cops in great detail all of the crimes
[1:29:14] Speaker 2: that he perpetrated. And when they ask him why, he says,
[1:29:17] Speaker 2: his neighbor Sam Carr's black lab Harvey was possessed by
[1:29:22] Speaker 2: an ancient demon and Harvey made him do it because
[1:29:25] Speaker 2: he wanted the blood of pretty young girls.
[1:29:28] Speaker 1: What yeah, so wait, okay, so that's why he called
[1:29:31] Speaker 1: himself son of Sam. Is the neighbor's name was Sam.
[1:29:34] Speaker 2: Sam Carr and Sam Carr's dog like it was he was,
[1:29:38] Speaker 2: But I don't get it. So uh But later on,
[1:29:42] Speaker 2: so you know, I've been listening to the audio book
[1:29:45] Speaker 2: of Those Who Fight Monsters, which is the guy from
[1:29:50] Speaker 2: the who basically started the FBI ViCAP all that, John E.
[1:29:55] Speaker 2: Douglas I think his name is, But he interviewed David
[1:30:02] Speaker 2: Berkowitz years later when they were putting together there when
[1:30:06] Speaker 2: they decided they were going to start profiling serial killers
[1:30:09] Speaker 2: so they could get profiles of them. Whatever. But he
[1:30:14] Speaker 2: basically got David Burgerts to admit that all of this
[1:30:17] Speaker 2: shit was fake. The whole thing about the dog talking
[1:30:20] Speaker 2: to him and everything was completely sorry. It was completely
[1:30:24] Speaker 2: made up so that he didn't seem responsible and that
[1:30:27] Speaker 2: he could get off on the insanity plea. And it
[1:30:30] Speaker 2: was purely because he was so angry at women. He
[1:30:33] Speaker 2: had never had success with women.
[1:30:35] Speaker 4: He was an angry man.
[1:30:38] Speaker 2: He was very angry. He was very like a spoiled child.
[1:30:41] Speaker 2: I think it was that thing that he didn't know
[1:30:43] Speaker 2: how to handle. He wasn't it wasn't his faults and
[1:30:46] Speaker 2: didn't get it. Yeah, And so he just wanted everyone
[1:30:49] Speaker 2: to pay for his loneliness and lack of popularity, which seems.
[1:30:54] Speaker 1: Like such a narrative of a lot of spree killers
[1:30:58] Speaker 1: that are just like they feel entitled and they're pissed
[1:31:01] Speaker 1: off that everyone else doesn't know that they should be
[1:31:04] Speaker 1: getting everything they want.
[1:31:05] Speaker 2: It makes me think of that boy in Santa Barbara.
[1:31:08] Speaker 2: They just thinking of that, all those kids in Santa Barbara.
[1:31:12] Speaker 2: It's the exact same thing where everybody else it's not
[1:31:15] Speaker 2: anything that has to do with them. They don't take
[1:31:17] Speaker 2: any personal responsibility. It's everybody else that everyone else has
[1:31:21] Speaker 2: to pay. It's I guess, narcissism, and you know, it's
[1:31:24] Speaker 2: a lot of game. Yeah, fucked up shites. Anyway, he
[1:31:30] Speaker 2: basically he is tried, found guilty on June's twelfth, nineteen
[1:31:34] Speaker 2: seventy eight. He's sentenced to six life terms, totaling a
[1:31:37] Speaker 2: maximum of three hundred and sixty five years in prison.
[1:31:40] Speaker 2: They send him to Attica in nineteen eighty seventy becomes
[1:31:44] Speaker 2: a born again Christian. Good luck with that, and before
[1:31:47] Speaker 2: his first parole hearing in two thousand and two, he
[1:31:49] Speaker 2: sent a letter to the Governor of New York. But
[1:31:52] Speaker 2: he lived there, How did I he was still alive? Sorry,
[1:31:56] Speaker 2: he's still alive.
[1:31:57] Speaker 3: Still alive.
[1:31:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was only in his thirties when he
[1:32:01] Speaker 2: was first put him to death or something. No, it's
[1:32:06] Speaker 2: he admitted to everything, so they didn't give him the
[1:32:07] Speaker 2: det date.
[1:32:08] Speaker 1: Okay, go on, Jesus Christ, just blew my mind. I
[1:32:11] Speaker 1: know it's not crazy.
[1:32:12] Speaker 2: Yeah. He sent a letter to George Pataki, who is
[1:32:16] Speaker 2: the Governor of New York at the time, asking to
[1:32:19] Speaker 2: have his parole hearing canceled. He said, in all honesty,
[1:32:23] Speaker 2: I believe I deserve to be in prison for the
[1:32:24] Speaker 2: rest of my life. I have, with God's help, long ago,
[1:32:28] Speaker 2: come to terms with my situation and I've accepted my punishment.
[1:32:31] Speaker 3: Wow.
[1:32:33] Speaker 2: Then in nineteen ninety three he went into this weird
[1:32:35] Speaker 2: thing where he was claiming to be responsible for Satanic
[1:32:38] Speaker 2: cult killings. I think he may have gotten bored. He
[1:32:43] Speaker 2: was trying to say that he didn't he wasn't the
[1:32:46] Speaker 2: only one responsible for the Son of Sam murders, that
[1:32:49] Speaker 2: there were other people and it was because of this
[1:32:51] Speaker 2: Satanic cult and blah blah blah. And when that story
[1:32:55] Speaker 2: came out, Jimmy Breslin himself made this statement. When they
[1:33:01] Speaker 2: talked to David Berkowitz that night, which is like the
[1:33:04] Speaker 2: night he got arrested, he recalled everything step by step
[1:33:07] Speaker 2: by step. The guy has one thousand percent recall and
[1:33:10] Speaker 2: that's it. He's the guy and there's nothing else to
[1:33:12] Speaker 2: look at for sure. So, Wow, Heavy was your son
[1:33:17] Speaker 2: of skin Hitter Heavy Hitter, which I always avoid because
[1:33:21] Speaker 2: it's so much research, So I know I miss big things.
[1:33:25] Speaker 2: And you know, sorry, Spike Lee, I was.
[1:33:27] Speaker 1: Going to do a heavy hitter this week actually, or
[1:33:29] Speaker 1: like I was gonna I was gonna do a heavy
[1:33:32] Speaker 1: hitter this week.
[1:33:33] Speaker 2: You know the thing where you're like should I get
[1:33:34] Speaker 2: this one or should I do that one?
[1:33:35] Speaker 1: I finished this one out maybe those one yes, And
[1:33:37] Speaker 1: then it was just like, no, Georgia, you need more
[1:33:39] Speaker 1: than sixteen hours before you decide to do a heavy hitter.
[1:33:44] Speaker 2: I mean you really do. And I think my Wikipedia
[1:33:46] Speaker 2: recitation proves that. Yeah, No, that was great. People that
[1:33:50] Speaker 2: shoot from a distant like, there is something very I mean,
[1:33:55] Speaker 2: obviously we're saying this. It's just so lame. It's just
[1:33:58] Speaker 2: so cowardly. Yeah, to like stand from a distance and
[1:34:01] Speaker 2: shoot a person and then just be like I am
[1:34:03] Speaker 2: the son of Sam.
[1:34:04] Speaker 1: It's emotionally detached in a way that you don't expect
[1:34:07] Speaker 1: from most serial killers, right, who were just like in
[1:34:11] Speaker 1: it for the suffering and seeing the suffering of others.
[1:34:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, he was. He wanted to end lives because it
[1:34:19] Speaker 2: was about his failures as a man. Right, he could
[1:34:24] Speaker 2: have been a mafia hitman. Yeah, he got fucking painted
[1:34:28] Speaker 2: his apartment and got a shit together.
[1:34:31] Speaker 1: It's tough listening to the dogs. Yeah, poor dog was like, dude,
[1:34:34] Speaker 1: I fucking love everyone. Don't bring me into this bitch
[1:34:37] Speaker 1: all I want our treats.
[1:34:38] Speaker 2: I just want them to bring me inside everyone's while
[1:34:40] Speaker 2: that's not working.
[1:34:41] Speaker 3: Why am I in the back?
[1:34:42] Speaker 2: Give me a scratch by in the ear? Everyone's in
[1:34:44] Speaker 2: a blue and then don't bring me into your story.
[1:34:47] Speaker 4: I'm not satanic, I am.
[1:34:49] Speaker 2: I love the idea of being possessed by an ancient demon. Yeah,
[1:34:52] Speaker 2: not a recent demon.
[1:34:54] Speaker 1: I mean the dog maybe was an ancient demon, but
[1:34:55] Speaker 1: it was also like, but I'm past that, I'm born again.
[1:34:59] Speaker 2: Yeah, she'd gotten healthy.
[1:35:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and we're back Karen any Son of Sam updates.
[1:35:08] Speaker 2: There are a couple So. First of all, David Burkowitz
[1:35:12] Speaker 2: still is serving a life sentence in upstate New York. Then,
[1:35:15] Speaker 2: also in twenty twenty five, Netflix released the three part
[1:35:17] Speaker 2: docuseries Conversations with a Killer, The Son of Sam tapes
[1:35:21] Speaker 2: and that featured interviews with victims, loved ones, researchers, and
[1:35:24] Speaker 2: former law enforcement assigned to the case. There's also a
[1:35:27] Speaker 2: new interview with David Berkowitz where he emphasizes his remorse
[1:35:31] Speaker 2: and he acknowledges that he should have gotten help sooner.
[1:35:34] Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, I also looked it up.
[1:35:36] Speaker 1: There was a documentary called The Sons of Sam a
[1:35:39] Speaker 1: Descent into Darkness, and Paul Giamatti was a voice in
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: that and it was really good. It talked a lot
[1:35:45] Speaker 1: about like the culty feeling back then and that like
[1:35:49] Speaker 1: the cropsy era, just like how there was just something
[1:35:53] Speaker 1: going on, yeah, like satanic panic wise.
[1:35:56] Speaker 2: Right, that there was kind of like dark things happening
[1:35:58] Speaker 2: and no one could put their finger on it, and
[1:36:01] Speaker 2: so it was like Satan or it's evil or it's that.
[1:36:05] Speaker 2: Now we know it's just Epstein. It was just yes.
[1:36:09] Speaker 1: But also the person who made the documentary thinks there's
[1:36:11] Speaker 1: more than one that David burk Whits didn't do it
[1:36:13] Speaker 1: all by himself, which is who the fuck knows whatever?
[1:36:15] Speaker 3: Okay, I mean very possible.
[1:36:17] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one.
[1:36:18] Speaker 1: All right, let's head back to the show where we
[1:36:21] Speaker 1: are going to wrap it up.
[1:36:25] Speaker 2: Well, shit, man, that's that. Man.
[1:36:28] Speaker 4: Should we say one thing that makes us happy?
[1:36:30] Speaker 2: Oh? Good, idea?
[1:36:31] Speaker 1: Is it sleeping all week? Because that's mine? Oh dude,
[1:36:34] Speaker 1: sleeping either has to do something.
[1:36:38] Speaker 2: Oh my new car?
[1:36:39] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, can that be mine? This is yes, okay,
[1:36:42] Speaker 1: this is the first new car I've ever had in
[1:36:44] Speaker 1: my life. Nice, it feels so luxurious. Satroya Corolla, which
[1:36:51] Speaker 1: is my first car I ever had, my first hand
[1:36:53] Speaker 1: me down, shitty little car that was just like the
[1:36:58] Speaker 1: most basic you can get at the time. I'm and
[1:37:01] Speaker 1: this one has like fucking a moon roof and a
[1:37:04] Speaker 1: fucking and automatic like your seat moves automatically.
[1:37:07] Speaker 2: I've never had a car shapes it to you as
[1:37:09] Speaker 2: you get in, yeah, or it has like the when
[1:37:11] Speaker 2: you need to move it forward.
[1:37:12] Speaker 1: It's just like you don't have to it, you know,
[1:37:16] Speaker 1: you have to do that while you're driving an accidentally
[1:37:17] Speaker 1: almost hit your face on a steering wheel or crash
[1:37:20] Speaker 1: right or crash.
[1:37:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:37:22] Speaker 1: It has like it has adult things that I never
[1:37:24] Speaker 1: thought I would ever have in my life. But it's
[1:37:27] Speaker 1: a Toyota, so it wasn't crazy expensive. As a couch warmer,
[1:37:31] Speaker 1: which is like to me, the next level of fucking class.
[1:37:34] Speaker 2: You can have those all the time. You just you
[1:37:36] Speaker 2: don't have to wait to get into your car. What
[1:37:38] Speaker 2: do you mean you can fucking slip something? You can
[1:37:41] Speaker 2: do an icy hot pad right into your underwear.
[1:37:44] Speaker 1: You trying to get me, It's just like it feels,
[1:37:51] Speaker 1: it feels grown up. And I'm like, I didn't think
[1:37:55] Speaker 1: i'd ever care about it something like this, and I'm
[1:37:57] Speaker 1: really just like pleased and greatful.
[1:38:00] Speaker 2: It's great. It's it's nice. It's nice to like be like,
[1:38:04] Speaker 2: oh I earned something, Yeah I earned it.
[1:38:06] Speaker 1: I think I earned it, and I'm really happy about it.
[1:38:08] Speaker 2: Yeah that's good. Yeah, I guess mine would be. So
[1:38:13] Speaker 2: this this is Thursday, So tomorrow night, I am playing
[1:38:17] Speaker 2: a show with my friends the band Sure Sure the
[1:38:22] Speaker 2: satellite in La So if you live in the LA area,
[1:38:25] Speaker 2: Steven and I will be there. These guys are coming.
[1:38:27] Speaker 2: I think I only can only put one name on
[1:38:29] Speaker 2: the guests. I'm coming, Okay, But if you are around
[1:38:34] Speaker 2: and want, I absolutely guarantee that you will love this band.
[1:38:39] Speaker 2: Sure Sure. They are so fucking good they're going to
[1:38:41] Speaker 2: be famous.
[1:38:42] Speaker 1: I just yeah played them for me, and I was
[1:38:44] Speaker 1: like it was one of those things where like this
[1:38:46] Speaker 1: reminds me of a little of this, and it was
[1:38:47] Speaker 1: all like classic bands that you love.
[1:38:49] Speaker 2: Yes, it's really fucking good. Yeah it's not. I told
[1:38:52] Speaker 2: them because we did a show together like four years ago,
[1:38:55] Speaker 2: and it was just because my friend Kevin is in
[1:38:58] Speaker 2: the band, and he was like, do you want to
[1:38:59] Speaker 2: do a sh show with us, and I told him
[1:39:02] Speaker 2: after the show, I was like, I was so scared
[1:39:05] Speaker 2: to see your band, because when do you go see
[1:39:07] Speaker 2: a band and you're like, that was the best thing ever.
[1:39:09] Speaker 2: It's not that often.
[1:39:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, it's intimidating when you go see not intimidating when
[1:39:13] Speaker 1: you go see a friend who's like, come see me
[1:39:14] Speaker 1: do this thing.
[1:39:14] Speaker 2: You're like, all right, and you're like, oh my god,
[1:39:17] Speaker 2: you're so talented. Yes, it's just so exciting, and people
[1:39:21] Speaker 2: are great and there. Their music is just so listenable.
[1:39:24] Speaker 2: I mean, I've already given the recommendation and you're playing music, right,
[1:39:28] Speaker 2: and I am opening for them. Yeah, So I'm going
[1:39:30] Speaker 2: to do a couple of my old, moldy oldies.
[1:39:33] Speaker 1: You have some you have some like classic songs, and
[1:39:36] Speaker 1: then you have some comedy songs too, right, Yeah, are
[1:39:38] Speaker 1: you going.
[1:39:38] Speaker 2: To do I don't think I have classic songs.
[1:39:40] Speaker 4: You don't do a lot of like well, then you
[1:39:42] Speaker 4: have like sad ones.
[1:39:43] Speaker 2: Songs like like a good Bye Yellow Bick Road.
[1:39:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, no, just like not not outright comedy.
[1:39:51] Speaker 2: Some of my comedy songs make you sad exactly. Yeah,
[1:39:55] Speaker 2: but I can still hide behind the comedy part. So
[1:39:57] Speaker 2: that's good. Yeah, I'm only going to do a handful.
[1:40:00] Speaker 2: If I was at the show and someone did like
[1:40:03] Speaker 2: if there, I would be like, get off the day.
[1:40:05] Speaker 2: I just want to see this band, please, So I
[1:40:08] Speaker 2: need to see you play. I'm excited to play because
[1:40:11] Speaker 2: I haven't done it in a while. I haven't seen
[1:40:12] Speaker 2: you play since i've known you. Oh yeah, you got it.
[1:40:15] Speaker 2: I did a show, that's right. I did a show
[1:40:19] Speaker 2: when we were in Denver. I got to do for
[1:40:23] Speaker 2: the High Planes Comedy Festival. I got to go do
[1:40:25] Speaker 2: a variety show after our show, which was super fun,
[1:40:28] Speaker 2: and a bunch of people that were at our show
[1:40:30] Speaker 2: came to that show too, and I thought it was
[1:40:33] Speaker 2: going to be kind of shitty because I hadn't played
[1:40:35] Speaker 2: publicly in a really long time, and it was super fun.
[1:40:38] Speaker 2: So I'm super looking forward to it. But more than that,
[1:40:41] Speaker 2: if you like good music, I would recommend being at
[1:40:45] Speaker 2: this show. I think, yeah, I think it's Kinna, I'm excited.
[1:40:50] Speaker 2: I mean, Stephen, how long was that? Steven? Stephen?
[1:40:55] Speaker 3: Fuck?
[1:40:56] Speaker 2: I liked this episode. Yeah that was a good one.
[1:40:58] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, we're back all right.
[1:41:03] Speaker 2: So, as Georgia said, this episode was originally titled Hither
[1:41:07] Speaker 2: and Yon.
[1:41:07] Speaker 1: But here are some possibilities we were naming it today
[1:41:10] Speaker 1: based on the episode.
[1:41:11] Speaker 2: We could call it Cakewalk in the Park from when
[1:41:13] Speaker 2: Georgia talks about writing free stories.
[1:41:18] Speaker 1: I want to use that for something that's like gotta
[1:41:20] Speaker 1: be a book. And then we could also call it
[1:41:23] Speaker 1: clubbing with Polyester.
[1:41:25] Speaker 3: That's right, love it?
[1:41:26] Speaker 1: Hey, all right, you guys, Well, thanks for listening to
[1:41:28] Speaker 1: another episode of Rewine, and let's go back to the
[1:41:31] Speaker 1: pod loft where we'll say goodbye, thanks for listening. I
[1:41:38] Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like it's a sign off. Yeah, rate, review, subscribe,
[1:41:43] Speaker 1: and it's like, well you've already done that.
[1:41:44] Speaker 2: Yeah, you do that so much. We appreciate that. It's
[1:41:46] Speaker 2: so nice.
[1:41:47] Speaker 4: Thank you guys for listening.
[1:41:48] Speaker 2: Thank you for being here with us, and stay sexy
[1:41:51] Speaker 2: and don't get murdered. Bye bye. Let us get out
[1:41:55] Speaker 2: of a cap box. Hey, oh the yeah, Elvis one cookie? Okay,
[1:42:05] Speaker 2: my cookie? All right? He's like, what do I do?
[1:42:11] Speaker 1: And I don't know how you keep asking me

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