# Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 117: Reality's Canceled

An episode of [My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1074507850), 30 Sep 2026, 1 h 47 min.

Audio: https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/bdde8bb3-169d-43b1-91d3-b24c0047969c/331777ba-9461-4a77-b625-b4c70124ae96/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=f450d41f-16bc-4ecd-8f6c-b24c004796e2

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 117: Reality's Canceled. Karen covered the survival story of Teka Adams and Georgia discussed the West Mesa Bone Collector. Tune in for all-new commentary, case updates and more! Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode! Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:03] Speaker 1: Music music.
[0:16] Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
[0:20] Speaker 3: This is our show where we look back on and
[0:22] Speaker 3: edit together our old episodes from 2018, this time with
[0:26] Speaker 3: all new insights and case updates.
[0:28] Speaker 2: Today we're rewinding to episode 117, which we named Realities Cancelled.
[0:32] Speaker 4: I stand by that.
[0:35] Speaker 5: It has been.
[0:36] Speaker 3: That's when the timeline jumped. This episode originally came out
[0:39] Speaker 3: April 19th, 2018.
[0:41] Speaker 4: Let's get into it. The intro to episode 117.
[0:48] Speaker 5: Welcome to My Favorite Murder.
[0:51] Speaker 2: The podcast where we know exactly where you are.
[0:54] Speaker 5: Every time. Introduce you in the very beginning.
[0:57] Speaker 3: You're baffled when you hit play and stare at our
[1:00] Speaker 3: logo until we tell you where you are.
[1:02] Speaker 2: Do you want to start with corrections corner? Do you
[1:04] Speaker 2: want me to start with telling you something crazy that happened?
[1:07] Speaker 3: I will start with saying that I did a tweet
[1:12] Speaker 3: about me belching so loudly that people heard me. on
[1:16] Speaker 3: the street right and it was very embarrassing and lots
[1:19] Speaker 3: of people responded and were like i knew i was
[1:22] Speaker 3: a karen and the irony of that is the way
[1:26] Speaker 3: one of the way georgia and i became friends one
[1:29] Speaker 3: of the icebreakers from the very beginning was we were
[1:32] Speaker 3: at a thanksgiving dinner at our friend's house very small
[1:36] Speaker 3: party we didn't we we knew each other from talking
[1:39] Speaker 3: once at a party yeah i believe And Georgia, almost
[1:43] Speaker 3: the entire party was belching. And I could not stop laughing.
[1:47] Speaker 3: It was my favorite fucking thing in the world. And
[1:49] Speaker 3: so when that happened and people were like, I'm such
[1:51] Speaker 3: a Karen, I was like, I wonder if Georgia's going
[1:53] Speaker 3: to get mad that I just stole her thing.
[1:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm angry that you stole the most embarrassing thing
[1:58] Speaker 2: about me. That's so gross that my mom is so
[2:01] Speaker 2: ashamed of. That clearly just indicates that I have some
[2:05] Speaker 2: gastrointestinal issues. I mean, join the club. I guess we
[2:08] Speaker 2: all do. But I want you to have it. I
[2:10] Speaker 2: want you to have that. I want you to be
[2:11] Speaker 2: known for that instead of me. Okay.
[2:13] Speaker 3: Oh, well, I have clearly moved into that because I
[2:17] Speaker 3: made this burp.
[2:18] Speaker 5: I put my hand up to cover my mouth. I
[2:20] Speaker 5: will say that for myself. Right.
[2:22] Speaker 3: But I think that made it, there's an echo effect
[2:24] Speaker 3: that was created because of my hand cupping. And so
[2:28] Speaker 3: it was like I was yodeling a burp across Magnolia.
[2:31] Speaker 5: Avenue in Burbank.
[2:31] Speaker 2: They're going to start bringing you on stage at Coachella
[2:34] Speaker 2: to fucking yodel your burps.
[2:36] Speaker 3: Fuck the yodeling boy. Let's get me belching into a microphone.
[2:40] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[2:41] Speaker 2: I once belched out the window in the passenger seat
[2:44] Speaker 2: on like, in like Beverly Hills and like angled it
[2:48] Speaker 2: out the window and next to us in the, at
[2:51] Speaker 2: the stoplight rolled down and the windows rolled down or
[2:53] Speaker 2: maybe his car top up. Cause he was so rich, uh,
[2:57] Speaker 2: who I angled it at was the dude from, um, uh,
[3:01] Speaker 2: American Idol, uh, Who, Ryan Seacrest?
[3:04] Speaker 5: Yes. Oh, no. I vouched right at him. And he
[3:09] Speaker 5: was like, you're going to Hollywood. And then Randy Jackson
[3:13] Speaker 5: popped up and was like, little pitchy, little pitchy on
[3:16] Speaker 5: that one. Speaking of pitchy, we just. Wow. We just
[3:20] Speaker 5: sang Stephen, happy birthday. His birthday was yesterday. You guys,
[3:24] Speaker 5: it's Stephen Ray Morris's first. 31st birthday.
[3:27] Speaker 2: That's right. I feel old. No, you are. You're so old. Um, we,
[3:31] Speaker 2: we celebrated with a, uh, I was like, what do we,
[3:35] Speaker 2: we have to get, uh, Steven, like a dinosaur cupcake
[3:38] Speaker 2: or something. And then Vince went to the grocery store
[3:40] Speaker 2: last night and came back with this, uh, Hello Kitty
[3:43] Speaker 2: birthday cake in the most like insane box.
[3:46] Speaker 5: It And then we ate it. We ate it.
[3:51] Speaker 1: My heart is racing right now.
[3:52] Speaker 5: Yeah. Stephen had two pieces.
[3:54] Speaker 2: I was like, do you want me to throw this away?
[3:55] Speaker 2: He was like, no, I want another piece. And he's
[3:57] Speaker 2: having coffee.
[3:58] Speaker 3: My theory is that it wasn't ice cream per se.
[4:02] Speaker 3: It was just ice cream like frosting. Like it was
[4:05] Speaker 3: just an entire frosting cake.
[4:07] Speaker 2: Frozen frosting. Frozen frosting cake. With frosting on the outside. Yep.
[4:11] Speaker 5: And confetti.
[4:11] Speaker 2: And confetti. It was pretty great.
[4:13] Speaker 1: It was so amazing.
[4:14] Speaker 5: Happy birthday, Stephen.
[4:16] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[4:16] Speaker 5: Can you tell us what you've learned in the past year? Ooh.
[4:22] Speaker 1: Pay your parking tickets.
[4:23] Speaker 5: Yes.
[4:24] Speaker 1: Which is, I think, what you told me last year.
[4:27] Speaker 5: Yes. Really? And so that worked for you?
[4:29] Speaker 2: Yes. This has worked? Yeah, yeah.
[4:30] Speaker 5: Great. We just pass.
[4:31] Speaker 3: Wisdom like this. You're saying don't delay. Do it right away.
[4:34] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[4:35] Speaker 1: Because then it just has like anxiety because you just
[4:37] Speaker 1: see it sitting in your backseat and you're just like,
[4:41] Speaker 1: you already know that money's gone. But then, yeah.
[4:43] Speaker 2: Or you know you're late anyway, so you don't pay it.
[4:45] Speaker 2: And then you realize the first time you knew you
[4:46] Speaker 2: were late, you weren't late and you could have not
[4:48] Speaker 2: had to pay double.
[4:49] Speaker 5: Yep.
[4:50] Speaker 2: Oh, I've given thousands and thousands of dollars to the
[4:52] Speaker 2: city of Los Angeles for parking tickets.
[4:54] Speaker 3: When I lived in San Francisco, I'd get tickets all
[4:55] Speaker 3: the time and I would I would park in the
[4:58] Speaker 3: crosswalk in front of our house.
[5:01] Speaker 5: Because I just couldn't find a spot ever.
[5:03] Speaker 3: And then I found out that I owed San Francisco
[5:06] Speaker 3: $ 800 in parking tickets.
[5:07] Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
[5:10] Speaker 3: I wish I had a recording of the way my
[5:12] Speaker 3: dad was yelling on the phone. Because in the middle,
[5:14] Speaker 3: I was all scared and upset as he's yelling at me.
[5:16] Speaker 3: And then I realized, oh, I'm not at home anymore.
[5:18] Speaker 3: This is like, I can just pull the phone away
[5:21] Speaker 3: from my ear, put it down, walk around.
[5:23] Speaker 5: I don't have to just listen to him yell. You
[5:26] Speaker 5: don't have to listen to your parents anymore.
[5:27] Speaker 3: No.
[5:28] Speaker 5: Even though he was 100% right. I was just like,
[5:31] Speaker 5: all right, talk to you later. Go ahead and pay that.
[5:32] Speaker 4: Okay, pay it.
[5:34] Speaker 2: I did a fucking rookie thing as someone who's lived
[5:36] Speaker 2: in los angeles for like 20 years i paid a
[5:39] Speaker 2: ton of money in the first like two years to
[5:41] Speaker 2: parking tickets because that's what happens and then i was
[5:42] Speaker 2: like well now i got this i i am la
[5:45] Speaker 2: like this is my hometown in one week and the
[5:49] Speaker 2: same spot i got three tickets whoa in the same fucking.
[5:54] Speaker 5: Like did you not move your car no you just.
[5:57] Speaker 2: Kept it's like it was like next to my cafe
[5:59] Speaker 2: that I go work at? And I was just so
[6:01] Speaker 2: involved in what I was working on that like, and
[6:03] Speaker 2: also I don't know math. So I like forgot that
[6:06] Speaker 2: an hour had gone by and not two. Yeah.
[6:09] Speaker 5: But that means you're in the flow. That's actually very good.
[6:11] Speaker 5: You're when time collapses like that, you're in the flow
[6:15] Speaker 5: of creativity. And all I have to do for that
[6:16] Speaker 5: is pay $ 68.
[6:17] Speaker 3: It's just, it's, it's akin to going to, uh, Universal Studios.
[6:25] Speaker 2: It's up there, but.
[6:27] Speaker 5: You know, there's less rides at that cafe. But isn't
[6:30] Speaker 5: it a, it's a wild ride in my brain. That's right.
[6:33] Speaker 5: And that creative energy.
[6:35] Speaker 2: Stupid brain. I have something to tell you, Karen. Something
[6:38] Speaker 2: happened that just made me laugh.
[6:41] Speaker 5: When you guys left after the episode yesterday, last week,
[6:44] Speaker 5: where are we? See, cause time has collapsed. We're in
[6:47] Speaker 5: the flow right now.
[6:48] Speaker 2: You're there.
[6:49] Speaker 5: All right. Something happened.
[6:50] Speaker 2: That's like one of your, I wouldn't call it your
[6:52] Speaker 2: biggest fears, but this thing that you're anxious about.
[6:55] Speaker 5: Did you, you didn't have pants and the only pants
[6:57] Speaker 5: that were there were too small?
[6:58] Speaker 4: No.
[6:58] Speaker 5: To put on?
[6:59] Speaker 2: No, guess another one. Like a thing that you're, like,
[7:01] Speaker 2: you're always like, what, is this going to happen? You
[7:03] Speaker 2: fell down in public.
[7:04] Speaker 5: No. Remember when you fell down? After we had lunch together,
[7:10] Speaker 5: like one of the first, not like one of the
[7:13] Speaker 5: first times.
[7:15] Speaker 2: After starting the podcast that we had hung out, we
[7:18] Speaker 2: had like gone to lunch. We had just recorded Joe
[7:20] Speaker 2: DeRosa and Kurt Brunner's podcast.
[7:21] Speaker 5: At Meltdown. Yeah.
[7:23] Speaker 2: What's it called?
[7:24] Speaker 5: And we went across the street. Oh, emotional hangs.
[7:27] Speaker 2: Emotional hangs. And we left and, oh, you just ate it.
[7:31] Speaker 2: I felt so bad.
[7:33] Speaker 3: I fell in that way where the styrofoam container that
[7:36] Speaker 3: had my half of a BLT flew out of my
[7:38] Speaker 3: hand and into the middle of sunset.
[7:40] Speaker 2: That was so sad.
[7:41] Speaker 5: And it's this thing, I have.
[7:42] Speaker 3: These trick ankles, both of them, because I've sprained both
[7:45] Speaker 3: of my ankles so many times that every once in
[7:47] Speaker 3: a while, if I step down wrong, especially if I'm wearing.
[7:49] Speaker 5: I think there was a little pothole, too. Oh, that's right.
[7:51] Speaker 5: I stepped into a pothole.
[7:53] Speaker 2: Right directly into the tiniest pothole.
[7:55] Speaker 5: And I can't help but laugh when I see that.
[7:57] Speaker 2: And I was like, we're not good enough friends yet
[7:58] Speaker 2: for me to laugh at you. How could you not though?
[8:01] Speaker 3: There's no, that you have to let people laugh if
[8:03] Speaker 3: you fall. If you're a grown adult that falls all
[8:06] Speaker 3: the way down, you have to take what comes.
[8:08] Speaker 2: But I also laughed and then I went and got
[8:10] Speaker 2: the car and brought it to you. So like, I'm
[8:12] Speaker 2: not a dick. I'm not like, bye, I'm going to
[8:14] Speaker 2: run through traffic.
[8:14] Speaker 5: That would have been amazing if you were like, well, anyway,
[8:17] Speaker 5: great lunch. See you later.
[8:19] Speaker 2: You're on your own on my way out grabbed your
[8:21] Speaker 2: your styrofoam blt and fucking took it with me you're
[8:24] Speaker 2: like oh i love oh you don't want this are
[8:26] Speaker 2: you threw it in the street this is for my
[8:27] Speaker 2: lunch okay no i all right let me set the scene.
[8:30] Speaker 5: It's none of those fears no no moths box of
[8:34] Speaker 5: moths uh-huh What? What? Are you serious?
[8:41] Speaker 2: So you guys left. Vince and I sat down. We
[8:44] Speaker 2: were hanging out watching TV. And I was like, why
[8:46] Speaker 2: is Dottie, my little kitten, just staring? They have this
[8:50] Speaker 2: box of toys, of all their little toys and stuff.
[8:53] Speaker 2: And she's just staring at it, which is weird. And
[8:56] Speaker 2: I eventually get paranoid.
[8:58] Speaker 5: I'm like, why is she? Is there like a spider
[8:59] Speaker 5: in there?
[8:59] Speaker 2: What's going on? So I pull the box out and
[9:01] Speaker 2: turn the light on. And there's a moth infestation in it.
[9:04] Speaker 2: And there are moths crawling all throughout it.
[9:07] Speaker 5: No, no, no. Yes, 100%. I found a fucking box
[9:10] Speaker 5: of moths.
[9:11] Speaker 2: And so I put it out on the fucking, on
[9:14] Speaker 2: the balcony.
[9:14] Speaker 5: And I was like, no, can't deal with this right now.
[9:16] Speaker 2: And then I went back yesterday thinking, or the other
[9:18] Speaker 2: day thinking maybe they had flown away. And it's just like,
[9:20] Speaker 2: you can see all the moth eggs in it. There's
[9:23] Speaker 2: still moths in it. So now I have to get
[9:25] Speaker 2: them totally new toys. And they're all these cool, like,
[9:27] Speaker 2: murderino toys.
[9:27] Speaker 5: Oh, that's right. There's all these homemade toys.
[9:29] Speaker 4: I can't get rid of them. Yeah.
[9:31] Speaker 2: Oh, shit. It's the thing I do to deal with
[9:34] Speaker 2: things where I just leave it.
[9:36] Speaker 5: Put it on the balcony and shut the shade?
[9:38] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[9:38] Speaker 5: A hundred percent. Oh, my God. Now, do you think
[9:43] Speaker 5: in any realm this supports my theory that I am
[9:46] Speaker 5: a psychic?
[9:47] Speaker 2: Yes.
[9:48] Speaker 5: Now, I know it's been.
[9:49] Speaker 3: About a year and a half since I talked about
[9:51] Speaker 3: originally fearing boxes of moths.
[9:53] Speaker 5: But maybe I'm a long-term psychic. Could be. And for
[9:56] Speaker 5: no reason. And it doesn't help at all. It doesn't
[9:59] Speaker 5: help anybody.
[9:59] Speaker 2: It didn't help me.
[10:00] Speaker 5: It wasn't a warning. It just turned into a funny joke.
[10:03] Speaker 5: People have given us great.
[10:04] Speaker 2: Box of moths gifts.
[10:05] Speaker 4: That's right.
[10:05] Speaker 2: Up right over here in the podlock, we have some
[10:07] Speaker 2: joke box of moths.
[10:08] Speaker 5: Gorgeous. People have handmade moths for us. Paper moth Shay.
[10:13] Speaker 5: Paper moth Shay. Paper moth Shay.
[10:16] Speaker 2: Maybe you are psychic to the puns I'm going to
[10:19] Speaker 2: make a year and a half later.
[10:20] Speaker 3: I just need to make a recording of when Georgia
[10:23] Speaker 3: is talking and while she's talking, thinks of a pun.
[10:27] Speaker 3: The joy that comes into her eyes is so delightful.
[10:31] Speaker 3: It's kind of like a cartoon where you're like, paper.
[10:35] Speaker 5: Mache, paper mache. Okay, now do we talk about something
[10:40] Speaker 5: fucking awful and heavy?
[10:42] Speaker 2: Yes.
[10:44] Speaker 5: My hometown, Burbank.
[10:45] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[10:45] Speaker 5: So I'm on the Nextdoor app in my neighborhood.
[10:48] Speaker 3: Which is the talk to your neighbors app. Talk to
[10:50] Speaker 3: your neighbors app. We're having a yard sale. Somebody's trying
[10:54] Speaker 3: to steal my recycling.
[10:55] Speaker 5: My Nextdoor app. Steal your fucking trash. For real.
[11:00] Speaker 3: My neighborhood is filled with old, retired, potentially rich people
[11:04] Speaker 3: because I live basically adjacent to a nice neighborhood. So
[11:08] Speaker 3: I get all these. We get all the bad neighborhood stuff.
[11:11] Speaker 3: We get all the fancy neighborhood stuff. Literally, there's listings like...
[11:15] Speaker 3: stranger on the street just anybody walking by they're trying
[11:18] Speaker 3: to report on next door it.
[11:21] Speaker 5: Is can you write back and be like calm down
[11:23] Speaker 5: i mean i actually watched a guy there's a really
[11:26] Speaker 5: hilarious writer named um guy under kaiser that's that i
[11:29] Speaker 5: follow on twitter that's also a tv writer that my
[11:32] Speaker 5: friends are friends with so i kind of know of
[11:34] Speaker 5: him and i saw him one time on the next
[11:37] Speaker 5: door app get into a fight with a guy.
[11:39] Speaker 3: And I DM him on Twitter and just go, just
[11:41] Speaker 3: so you know, I'm on your side. And that was the,
[11:43] Speaker 3: these people are insane. They're beyond insane. So one of
[11:47] Speaker 3: the listings was raccoon out in the day. There's shit
[11:51] Speaker 3: like that where you're just like, you guys need to
[11:53] Speaker 3: start going to a community center or take a class
[11:57] Speaker 3: or feed.
[11:57] Speaker 2: The raccoon and make friends with him or feed that raccoon,
[12:00] Speaker 2: trap it and get it inside your house.
[12:02] Speaker 3: But The other day on the Nextdoor app, God bless it,
[12:05] Speaker 3: up comes an official Burbank police report about three dead
[12:10] Speaker 3: bodies that have been found in a car.
[12:12] Speaker 2: Jesus.
[12:13] Speaker 5: And they don't know.
[12:14] Speaker 3: There's a bunch of talk that there's missing people from
[12:18] Speaker 3: the Bakersfield area.
[12:19] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[12:20] Speaker 3: That people are theorizing these might be those missing people.
[12:23] Speaker 5: Like a family? It did not say.
[12:25] Speaker 3: It's just the missing individuals from the Bakersfield area is
[12:28] Speaker 3: the only way.
[12:29] Speaker 5: They said it. Okay, so maybe they're linked somehow.
[12:31] Speaker 3: Well, that's the theory, but police are like, it's unproven.
[12:34] Speaker 3: They don't have the identities yet. Wait, at the end
[12:37] Speaker 3: did they say, wink, wink? Because that's how you know.
[12:40] Speaker 5: That's how you know they know exactly who they're talking about. No,
[12:44] Speaker 5: but it's like.
[12:45] Speaker 3: I think about a year ago, a crime very similar
[12:48] Speaker 3: where it was in the morning and a parking person
[12:50] Speaker 3: found the burnt out car.
[12:51] Speaker 5: Remember?
[12:51] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[12:52] Speaker 5: In Burbank by the Burbank library.
[12:54] Speaker 3: That's what this reminds me of, but it's, I don't
[12:56] Speaker 3: think it's the same area, but it still was seven
[12:59] Speaker 3: in the morning and a parking person came and it
[13:01] Speaker 3: was a red Jeep. They didn't park there for like
[13:04] Speaker 3: several days.
[13:05] Speaker 2: What I think is interesting though, is that it was
[13:06] Speaker 2: parked in a illegal parking place, which means they wanted
[13:10] Speaker 2: the car to be found.
[13:11] Speaker 5: Whoever left it there.
[13:12] Speaker 2: Maybe. You know what I mean?
[13:13] Speaker 5: Yes. Yes. The idea though, that three dead bodies is
[13:18] Speaker 5: just like, God, like what happened? Please don't let it
[13:21] Speaker 5: be a family.
[13:21] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[13:22] Speaker 5: What the fuck? What the fuck?
[13:24] Speaker 2: So scary.
[13:25] Speaker 3: That's a, I don't know, something I'll definitely come back
[13:28] Speaker 3: to you with if there's anything interesting, but it's like,
[13:31] Speaker 3: we talk about this stuff so much and we read
[13:33] Speaker 3: about it so much. And when it's, you know, it's
[13:36] Speaker 3: what we always say when it happens like near you,
[13:38] Speaker 3: you're just like, no way.
[13:39] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[13:40] Speaker 5: This is happens other places. Totally.
[13:41] Speaker 2: Scary.
[13:42] Speaker 5: Scary. So is Geody. Let me change the tune because
[13:47] Speaker 5: I have no way to do.
[13:48] Speaker 2: It and it sucks. Okay, I have two corrections from
[13:50] Speaker 2: Monday's mini-sode. The term suck it was not said by
[13:55] Speaker 2: Stone Cold Steve Austin. In fact, Vince laughed at me
[13:58] Speaker 2: when I said that. So I am a terrible wrestling wife.
[14:03] Speaker 2: It was said by these other people. I don't want
[14:06] Speaker 2: to screw it up again, so I'm not going to
[14:07] Speaker 2: say it. And then also the thing I'm going to
[14:09] Speaker 2: be drinking in the UK is not a pint of bitters,
[14:11] Speaker 2: but a pint of bitter.
[14:13] Speaker 4: Okay, bitter.
[14:14] Speaker 5: Bitter. Singular. Yes.
[14:17] Speaker 2: That's it.
[14:17] Speaker 5: That's good to know.
[14:19] Speaker 3: But now we know that bitters are the thing I
[14:21] Speaker 3: was talking about. Bitter is the thing you were talking about, right?
[14:24] Speaker 5: Right.
[14:26] Speaker 3: Because you can order bitters, but that's when you feel
[14:29] Speaker 3: like you're burping a lot, you can order bitters and
[14:31] Speaker 3: make all that go away.
[14:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[14:33] Speaker 5: Supposedly. I have a question.
[14:35] Speaker 2: Okay.
[14:36] Speaker 5: That we will find out when we are in London, England,
[14:39] Speaker 5: I believe.
[14:39] Speaker 2: Okay.
[14:40] Speaker 5: They talk about having tea all the time. Yeah. But
[14:42] Speaker 5: I think, don't they just mean lunch?
[14:44] Speaker 4: No.
[14:45] Speaker 5: Tea is like a snack. Oh, shit, Karen. Why are
[14:48] Speaker 5: we just doing this right now? Stephen, look up high tea.
[14:50] Speaker 3: What if we just put it out there to the
[14:52] Speaker 3: universe and see who tells us? But it's just, I'm
[14:56] Speaker 3: watching a British show right now where they keep talking about,
[14:58] Speaker 3: what did you have for tea?
[14:59] Speaker 5: I think tea, from the books I've read.
[15:02] Speaker 2: I think tea is you have tea and like a dessert,
[15:05] Speaker 2: like a what's for tea. It's like this dessert. It's
[15:07] Speaker 2: like a sponge cake or some kind of pudding.
[15:09] Speaker 5: But not according to this TV show.
[15:12] Speaker 2: That's why. Which one?
[15:13] Speaker 5: Oh, I want to talk about it at the end
[15:14] Speaker 5: of the show. All right.
[15:15] Speaker 2: Well, OK. Well, when we had high tea, I think
[15:20] Speaker 2: that's different. It's like lunch, snacks, snacks. That's why I
[15:24] Speaker 2: think it's snacks.
[15:25] Speaker 5: It's not, though, according to the show. Well, we should.
[15:28] Speaker 2: Do it when we're there.
[15:32] Speaker 5: And we're back.
[15:33] Speaker 4: We're back.
[15:34] Speaker 5: We're burping.
[15:35] Speaker 4: More burping than ever. Why do we burp so much
[15:38] Speaker 4: on this show?
[15:39] Speaker 5: We drink a lot of beverages beforehand.
[15:42] Speaker 2: Yes.
[15:43] Speaker 4: Is there an air swallowing thing with talking?
[15:45] Speaker 1: Absolutely.
[15:45] Speaker 5: When you get all excited.
[15:47] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[15:47] Speaker 5: And you kind of like.
[15:48] Speaker 4: There's a lot of gasping in this show.
[15:50] Speaker 5: A lot of gasping. A lot of short, like, we're
[15:53] Speaker 5: not doing good diaphragmatic breathing. No.
[15:56] Speaker 4: There's a lot of slouching.
[15:58] Speaker 5: Yes.
[15:59] Speaker 2: Especially back then. Are we still in the pot loft,
[16:01] Speaker 2: I think? 2018?
[16:01] Speaker 5: Yeah, I think so. I think so.
[16:03] Speaker 4: That means for me it's like legs up higher than
[16:06] Speaker 4: my head.
[16:08] Speaker 5: Didn't I sit on the floor a lot in front
[16:10] Speaker 5: of the couch? Yeah. I feel like that was my moment.
[16:13] Speaker 5: With your old coffee. I know we've talked about this,
[16:15] Speaker 5: but me and Stephen would get to George's apartment at
[16:18] Speaker 5: like seven o'clock at night and she would have her
[16:21] Speaker 5: old coffee from the morning and we'd be like, can
[16:22] Speaker 5: we have your coffee?
[16:23] Speaker 2: Heat it up.
[16:24] Speaker 4: Who gives a shit?
[16:25] Speaker 5: Every once in a while. We would reheat it every
[16:27] Speaker 5: once in a while. You'd make us a new pot.
[16:29] Speaker 5: But most of the time we were just drinking your
[16:30] Speaker 5: old coffee.
[16:31] Speaker 4: I wouldn't make you a new pot because I'm not
[16:32] Speaker 4: good at making it. And I'm lazy. Let's be honest here.
[16:35] Speaker 5: There's a couple of things.
[16:36] Speaker 4: Happening at once. I'm not good at making. I made
[16:37] Speaker 4: someone coffee once.
[16:38] Speaker 2: That came over because Vince makes it he's good at
[16:41] Speaker 2: it you know and so if he isn't home I'm
[16:42] Speaker 2: not going to make it for you it's going to
[16:43] Speaker 2: be worse than if you just reheat the coffee that
[16:45] Speaker 2: Vince made that morning sure and then I'm also like
[16:48] Speaker 2: give it to people black and don't offer them any
[16:50] Speaker 2: cream or sugar because I drink it black so it
[16:51] Speaker 2: doesn't even cross my mind and.
[16:53] Speaker 5: It's like that's what Steven and I did though we
[16:54] Speaker 5: would just go in yeah and we'd be like yeah
[16:57] Speaker 5: reheat it and then it would be like Almost bedtime,
[17:01] Speaker 5: and me and Stephen would be like, let's drink as
[17:03] Speaker 5: much caffeine as we can.
[17:04] Speaker 4: I mean, you've got to do it for the love
[17:06] Speaker 4: of the pod.
[17:06] Speaker 5: It is what has fueled this show for a decade.
[17:09] Speaker 4: Okay, I have a question for you. Yeah. When was
[17:12] Speaker 4: the last time you got a parking ticket?
[17:15] Speaker 5: Fucking never. Really?
[17:16] Speaker 4: And you know what?
[17:17] Speaker 5: I've really turned my life around, but it's too late.
[17:20] Speaker 5: My dad refuses to be proud of me. But he
[17:23] Speaker 5: would be if he would just listen. He would be
[17:26] Speaker 5: so proud because I don't get parking tickets. And the
[17:29] Speaker 5: other day I actually did one of those things where
[17:31] Speaker 5: I think I was in Studio City and I pulled
[17:35] Speaker 5: in and it was one of those things where like
[17:36] Speaker 5: there was a number and I was supposed to go
[17:38] Speaker 5: find the coordinating fucking thing. And I was like, no,
[17:41] Speaker 5: I'm rolling the dice.
[17:42] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[17:42] Speaker 5: No ticket.
[17:43] Speaker 2: Nice.
[17:44] Speaker 5: Right.
[17:44] Speaker 4: I've definitely had a few. But since my brain is
[17:47] Speaker 4: formed completely in my 20s, I haven't. It hasn't been
[17:50] Speaker 4: like they should. They're shooting an exemption.
[17:52] Speaker 2: For people whose brains aren't– because it's so confusing in L.A.
[17:55] Speaker 2: especially of, like, where, how, and when.
[17:57] Speaker 3: When my niece started driving– Oh, you fay. When she
[18:00] Speaker 3: was 16 years old and her friends started driving, I
[18:02] Speaker 3: was like, who picked 16?
[18:04] Speaker 5: This is– we're not farmers. Like– Get these kids off
[18:08] Speaker 5: the streets until they're 30.
[18:09] Speaker 2: They can't even vote for their own rights yet. They
[18:12] Speaker 2: shouldn't be able to drive themselves places. Yeah, let's get
[18:15] Speaker 2: on our high horse.
[18:15] Speaker 3: Anyway, this is where the box of moths fear came from.
[18:18] Speaker 3: This is the episode so long ago.
[18:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[18:21] Speaker 3: And people used to threaten it. It's kind of funny
[18:24] Speaker 3: because being raised by a sister.
[18:26] Speaker 5: Yes, that's right.
[18:26] Speaker 3: My sister raised me. She taught me a lot of
[18:29] Speaker 3: good tricks growing up. One of which is don't ever
[18:33] Speaker 3: actually tell people your real thing.
[18:36] Speaker 5: Oh. You know what I mean? Yeah. So Fox Mons
[18:38] Speaker 5: is like, oh, that's my biggest fear.
[18:39] Speaker 4: Sure.
[18:39] Speaker 3: It isn't really.
[18:40] Speaker 4: Right. Like, I like clowns. I don't like clowns.
[18:42] Speaker 5: Uh-huh.
[18:42] Speaker 4: Don't fucking give it away.
[18:43] Speaker 5: Not on a podcast.
[18:44] Speaker 2: Sure.
[18:45] Speaker 5: And she taught me that with don't tell people who
[18:47] Speaker 5: you actually have a crush on. And in high school,
[18:50] Speaker 5: I made up.
[18:51] Speaker 2: Wow.
[18:52] Speaker 5: I was talking to somebody, and I got the vibe of, like,
[18:54] Speaker 5: not safe. Yeah.
[18:55] Speaker 3: So they're like, who do you like? And then I said,
[18:57] Speaker 3: and it was just, like, some guy that was in
[18:59] Speaker 3: the class above us.
[19:00] Speaker 2: Jesus?
[19:00] Speaker 4: Was it Jesus?
[19:01] Speaker 5: Yeah. Again, I had to preach. Yeah.
[19:04] Speaker 3: And then like a couple weeks later, he started going
[19:07] Speaker 3: out with my friend's older sister and she came and
[19:09] Speaker 3: apologized to me. She's like, I know you really liked him.
[19:12] Speaker 3: And I was like, this school is so small and
[19:14] Speaker 3: this is, thank God she told me this. Because I didn't,
[19:17] Speaker 3: I was like, it's okay.
[19:18] Speaker 5: But I was like, oh no.
[19:20] Speaker 2: I tell everything to everyone all the time.
[19:22] Speaker 5: I know. Just know you can lie. Okay.
[19:25] Speaker 4: Do you want to update on the Burbank bodies in
[19:27] Speaker 4: the car?
[19:28] Speaker 5: God, that is just.
[19:29] Speaker 3: It's one of those things where, like, I feel like
[19:31] Speaker 3: once we started doing this podcast, the amount of actual
[19:36] Speaker 3: crime around me became so much more evident. And it was, like,
[19:41] Speaker 3: building and building where it's like, yeah, this is everywhere
[19:43] Speaker 3: all the time.
[19:44] Speaker 4: Totally. Well, you notice it, like, all the time now, too,
[19:46] Speaker 4: I think.
[19:47] Speaker 5: Right.
[19:47] Speaker 2: More so.
[19:48] Speaker 5: So this one was.
[19:49] Speaker 3: a really terrible story and a very sad one the
[19:54] Speaker 3: the men in that car were three missing men from
[19:57] Speaker 3: the bakersfield area and two of them were brothers they
[20:01] Speaker 3: were lucas and jan carlos amiyama And then the third
[20:06] Speaker 3: victim was later identified as Carlos Elias Lopez. All three
[20:11] Speaker 3: of those men had already been reported missing from Bakersfield,
[20:15] Speaker 3: and they were found shot to death in a Jeep
[20:17] Speaker 3: on April 17, 2018. This case has never been solved.
[20:21] Speaker 5: It's still open. No arrests have been made.
[20:24] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[20:24] Speaker 4: That's such a long time.
[20:26] Speaker 2: So sad.
[20:27] Speaker 4: All right. Well, so should we get into your story?
[20:29] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes.
[20:30] Speaker 3: This is another one of my, I survived the television
[20:34] Speaker 3: show that I adore the most, saved me when I
[20:38] Speaker 3: had no story. But this story, Tika Adams, the woman
[20:42] Speaker 3: who went through this horrifying experience, she's just, it's such
[20:47] Speaker 3: an incredible thing that it felt great. And this is,
[20:50] Speaker 3: I think, where, as we were doing this podcast, learning
[20:55] Speaker 3: that the The good feeling is the feeling of telling
[20:59] Speaker 3: a story that could help that person or help people
[21:02] Speaker 3: like that person in the future. The idea that young
[21:06] Speaker 3: women who are pregnant should be slightly worried about this bizarre,
[21:12] Speaker 3: like a person who would set up a similar like
[21:15] Speaker 3: a wish list online and then be like, that's how
[21:18] Speaker 3: they access them.
[21:20] Speaker 5: I'm a mother too. All that weird stuff.
[21:22] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[21:23] Speaker 4: Just to keep an eye out. No, the story is stuck,
[21:25] Speaker 4: I think, with everyone.
[21:26] Speaker 5: It's so crazy.
[21:27] Speaker 4: All right. So let's get into Karen's story about Tika Adams.
[21:32] Speaker 5: All right. And with that, who went first last week? Me?
[21:40] Speaker 2: I did.
[21:41] Speaker 5: You did? Yeah, because I was like, I want to
[21:43] Speaker 5: go first.
[21:44] Speaker 2: Right.
[21:45] Speaker 1: Well, and again, I still don't like I feel like
[21:47] Speaker 1: we never got a confirmation on if you did Jesse
[21:50] Speaker 1: Pomeroy in Boston.
[21:52] Speaker 5: We did. I did. Someone actually, somebody sent, somebody sent
[21:56] Speaker 5: a tweet.
[21:57] Speaker 3: I should, I should have written her name down. I'm
[21:58] Speaker 3: getting better at this, but I didn't do it this time.
[22:01] Speaker 3: She sent a tweet that said, yeah, you did Jesse
[22:04] Speaker 3: Pomeroy's second show, late show.
[22:06] Speaker 5: Glad we mean so much. It was something really funny,
[22:09] Speaker 5: like a.
[22:10] Speaker 3: Real sassy Boston response that was like, yeah late show
[22:13] Speaker 3: thanks for the love from the late show or something
[22:15] Speaker 3: it was really funny but it doesn't matter because it
[22:18] Speaker 3: honestly we've done so many of these that it really.
[22:21] Speaker 2: Felt new to me if you don't remember if steven
[22:23] Speaker 2: doesn't remember if i don't remember if wikipedia doesn't mention
[22:27] Speaker 2: it it never fucking happened well.
[22:29] Speaker 3: And that means that we can just keep on every
[22:31] Speaker 3: like two years we'll just cycle through the same story.
[22:34] Speaker 5: Perfect but we'll switch off but we'll yeah Also.
[22:37] Speaker 3: There was people that were saying, you said something was
[22:40] Speaker 3: in some neighborhood and it wasn't.
[22:41] Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember that part. I mean, that's
[22:44] Speaker 5: part for the course.
[22:45] Speaker 3: I feel like if we didn't do stuff like that,
[22:47] Speaker 3: nobody would have any reason to interact.
[22:49] Speaker 2: That's right.
[22:50] Speaker 5: And then we'd all be so alone and isolated.
[22:52] Speaker 2: The secret is sometimes we do it on purpose just
[22:53] Speaker 2: so you guys.
[22:54] Speaker 5: Will pay attention to us. We plant them. They're called
[22:57] Speaker 5: Easter egg mistakes. They're called Easter eggs. Passover egg mistakes. Oh,
[23:04] Speaker 5: for equality? For Jewish equality? Okay. I hear that. They're
[23:07] Speaker 5: Pesach mistakes. Pesach mistakes. Let me think of a pun. No. No.
[23:12] Speaker 2: It's not there.
[23:12] Speaker 5: It really pays off.
[23:14] Speaker 2: Karen!
[23:15] Speaker 5: Did that work? Karen! Did you even understand what I meant?
[23:18] Speaker 4: Yes, it pays off.
[23:19] Speaker 2: It pays off.
[23:20] Speaker 3: Come on.
[23:21] Speaker 5: That was beautiful. You are slowly turning me to the
[23:24] Speaker 5: pun cult. Oh, that was another. Somebody else sent a
[23:26] Speaker 5: message that was like, and because Karen loved puns and
[23:29] Speaker 5: my head almost exploded.
[23:30] Speaker 3: I was like, now we're just blending into the same person. Well, listen,
[23:35] Speaker 3: we've been doing a lot of things lately and we've
[23:38] Speaker 3: been busy. And you know what that means when I've
[23:40] Speaker 3: been busy and we come to do one of our episodes.
[23:42] Speaker 2: I survived.
[23:44] Speaker 5: I survived. I survived. All right. And this one I
[23:49] Speaker 5: have to thank.
[23:50] Speaker 3: And I'm saying your full name because it's on your
[23:52] Speaker 3: Twitter page. feed so i'm not thinking that you have
[23:56] Speaker 3: a lot of shame about it there's nothing.
[23:58] Speaker 5: There's she's shameful about her name.
[24:00] Speaker 3: No i'm just saying i want to say her whole
[24:02] Speaker 3: name because it's what her twitter name is okay um
[24:05] Speaker 3: and charlotte white okay and she tweeted me the other
[24:07] Speaker 3: day and she tweeted me a little video um and
[24:11] Speaker 3: she was like what about this fucking awesome moment from
[24:14] Speaker 3: i survived.
[24:15] Speaker 2: I watched it.
[24:16] Speaker 5: Did you watch it? And I was like, what is
[24:17] Speaker 5: that episode? Okay.
[24:19] Speaker 3: So she reminded me. And I got real mad at
[24:22] Speaker 3: myself for not... Because this is one of those ones.
[24:25] Speaker 3: And I think maybe I hadn't done it. Because this
[24:28] Speaker 3: is another fetus snatching story.
[24:30] Speaker 5: Oh, God. Just like Sarah Brady's. They just keep doing that.
[24:34] Speaker 5: It's so crazy. But this one.
[24:37] Speaker 3: I think this one might be crazier. And it's also
[24:40] Speaker 3: really fucking hard to listen to. So anybody that's squeamish,
[24:44] Speaker 3: I will warn you before I say bad things in
[24:45] Speaker 3: this one. Because there's been times when I haven't done that.
[24:48] Speaker 3: People get a little bit upset. I think that's a
[24:50] Speaker 3: really good idea.
[24:51] Speaker 5: Yes.
[24:51] Speaker 3: Because this one's rough. And what's incredible. So this is
[24:55] Speaker 3: Tika's story.
[24:56] Speaker 2: Okay.
[24:56] Speaker 3: This is me basically copying down her I Survive story.
[25:01] Speaker 2: I feel like you've given I Survive so much fucking
[25:04] Speaker 2: play that they'd be like, yeah, go ahead and use
[25:05] Speaker 2: the clip.
[25:06] Speaker 5: I mean, one would like to think that, but lawyers
[25:08] Speaker 5: aren't like that. Those fucking copyright lawyers don't give a fuck. Okay, fine, fine, fine.
[25:15] Speaker 5: So Charlotte sends a clip and it's Tika in the
[25:19] Speaker 5: middle of telling the most gruesome thing.
[25:23] Speaker 3: Shitting on Michael Jackson. And it's so funny. And the
[25:26] Speaker 3: way she does it is so funny. And I was like, oh,
[25:28] Speaker 3: my God, I love that one. And I responded to
[25:30] Speaker 3: Charlotte and I was like, oh, my.
[25:32] Speaker 5: God, I love that one. She's amazing. Whatever.
[25:35] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[25:35] Speaker 5: And so then I was like, got to tell her story.
[25:37] Speaker 5: Can we put the clip on like on socials? Probably. Right.
[25:41] Speaker 5: I'll just we'll just retweet Charlotte White. Yes. And then
[25:45] Speaker 5: I read her home address. Charlotte White. I'm going to
[25:48] Speaker 5: say it 19 more times. She's at call me Charlie
[25:51] Speaker 5: 16 on Twitter.
[25:51] Speaker 2: Okay.
[25:52] Speaker 5: If you want to talk to her about this, but
[25:55] Speaker 5: I do.
[25:55] Speaker 3: So I always remember Tika and it's the way she
[25:58] Speaker 3: tells the story because as she's telling her, she's always
[26:02] Speaker 3: calm and, and almost like Zen, like calm and she's,
[26:08] Speaker 3: and we always say this and it's a really lame
[26:10] Speaker 3: thing to say, but it's just how we feel. It's
[26:13] Speaker 3: not about, we're not talking about beauty per se.
[26:17] Speaker 5: This woman is fucking gorgeous. Like, and the way she is. Yes, exactly. Radiant,
[26:23] Speaker 5: I think was the word I used. She's radiant.
[26:25] Speaker 3: And she just talked, she talks through the worst fucking
[26:29] Speaker 3: thing that could happen to a person with this, like,
[26:32] Speaker 3: she just kind of is rolling her eyes like, and
[26:34] Speaker 3: if you can believe.
[26:35] Speaker 5: This, this is what happened. Just like, holy shit.
[26:38] Speaker 2: All right.
[26:38] Speaker 5: So now I tell you, it's we're in Washington, DC, 2009. Okay.
[26:42] Speaker 3: And Tika lives on the streets. Um, the way she
[26:46] Speaker 3: describes herself, she says she is rebellious. She didn't want
[26:48] Speaker 3: to live by anybody else's rules. And because of that,
[26:51] Speaker 3: she got herself into what she calls some rough spots.
[26:54] Speaker 3: So after living that way for a while, she decides
[26:57] Speaker 3: she needs to get her life together and she gets
[26:59] Speaker 3: herself into a shelter.
[27:01] Speaker 5: She gets off the streets.
[27:02] Speaker 3: Um, so she's in this shelter and she meets a
[27:05] Speaker 3: guy named PJ. They fall in love and they get married.
[27:08] Speaker 5: So, um, So when.
[27:11] Speaker 3: She's seven and a half months pregnant, she starts to
[27:14] Speaker 3: get phone calls from an unknown number. And she finally,
[27:19] Speaker 3: when she picks up, it's a woman who says her
[27:21] Speaker 3: name's Stephanie. And Stephanie says she works for a program
[27:25] Speaker 3: that gets homeless pregnant women like clothing, baby supplies, car seats, strollers, whatever.
[27:34] Speaker 5: And she says that they have.
[27:36] Speaker 3: This big warehouse full of that stuff and that Tika
[27:39] Speaker 3: can come down and pick out whatever she wants.
[27:42] Speaker 2: Wow.
[27:43] Speaker 3: The smile that gets on her face when she's talking
[27:45] Speaker 3: about this, where she's just like, I was thrilled. Like,
[27:48] Speaker 3: it's this amazing opportunity. And this is also the part
[27:51] Speaker 3: of this element of this story that's so fucked up
[27:55] Speaker 3: is this is a person who is as down on
[27:57] Speaker 3: her luck as she can be. And this is when
[27:59] Speaker 3: she gets fucking victimized. It's really fucked up. So she's thrilled. Immediately,
[28:06] Speaker 3: her husband, PJ, is like, I.
[28:08] Speaker 5: Don't like this.
[28:09] Speaker 2: I'm suspicious.
[28:10] Speaker 3: I don't think this is too good to be true.
[28:13] Speaker 3: And he said, he actually, what he says is don't
[28:15] Speaker 3: rush into anything you don't know about where I'm like, yes, PJ.
[28:19] Speaker 3: But Tika's like, I really.
[28:21] Speaker 5: Need this stuff. And there are programs like that.
[28:23] Speaker 2: Absolutely.
[28:24] Speaker 3: There's plenty of like good hearted people that want exactly that,
[28:28] Speaker 3: you know, want to help in that exactly that way.
[28:31] Speaker 5: So she's like, yeah, don't, don't be so mistrustful.
[28:33] Speaker 3: So, um, She ends up meeting this woman named Stephanie
[28:37] Speaker 3: outside of the shelter. And she says that Stephanie is
[28:44] Speaker 3: really nice. She's very soft-spoken. She gets into her car.
[28:48] Speaker 3: Stephanie asks her how everything is. She starts telling her
[28:51] Speaker 3: about her life and how she has turned it around.
[28:55] Speaker 3: She's gotten off the streets and now she's married and
[28:57] Speaker 3: now she's going to have this baby and that she's really,
[28:59] Speaker 3: really happy.
[29:01] Speaker 2: And....
[29:03] Speaker 3: So, uh, they, as she's like talking and driving, you know,
[29:09] Speaker 3: she's just telling her about everything. They end up at
[29:10] Speaker 3: Stephanie's apartment. So she goes up into Stephanie's apartment with
[29:15] Speaker 3: her and Stephanie brings her into an unfurnished bedroom and
[29:18] Speaker 3: sits her down and puts on a movie and then
[29:21] Speaker 3: starts doing other stuff.
[29:23] Speaker 5: And so, yeah.
[29:24] Speaker 3: So here's, this is the thing that like, you don't
[29:27] Speaker 3: know any of this extra stuff. So this is just
[29:29] Speaker 3: my opinion. But this is the kind of thing where
[29:32] Speaker 3: if you're in the position of being given something that
[29:36] Speaker 3: you really, really want and need very badly. you're not
[29:40] Speaker 3: going to question a person that starts changing their story
[29:44] Speaker 3: ever so slightly.
[29:44] Speaker 4: Totally.
[29:45] Speaker 2: Because you still are ingratiated to that person for those things.
[29:49] Speaker 5: You're like, get me to that fucking warehouse. If you
[29:51] Speaker 5: need to stop off at your apartment, so be it.
[29:53] Speaker 5: That happens.
[29:55] Speaker 3: And I'm sure that that woman gave her some storyline
[29:57] Speaker 3: of why she needed to be there for a little while.
[29:59] Speaker 3: So it's like, oh, I'll just put on this movie
[30:01] Speaker 3: and let me just get these things done. But that's,
[30:03] Speaker 3: I don't know if that's exactly how it happens.
[30:04] Speaker 5: I mean, that makes total sense. That's how I'm picturing it,
[30:06] Speaker 5: where you start to rationalize. It's just like, yeah, this
[30:09] Speaker 5: is fine.
[30:09] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[30:10] Speaker 3: So she gets a call from PJ while she's sitting there.
[30:13] Speaker 3: He goes, as she said, he goes, where are you at?
[30:16] Speaker 3: And she's like, I'm fine.
[30:18] Speaker 5: But she goes, because the truth was, I didn't know
[30:21] Speaker 5: where I was. So she doesn't want him to worry. Right.
[30:25] Speaker 5: But his worry is making her begin to worry.
[30:28] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[30:28] Speaker 3: And begin to realize what a mistake it was to
[30:31] Speaker 3: kind of lose herself in the conversation.
[30:33] Speaker 5: And she doesn't, she can't say where she is. She
[30:36] Speaker 5: doesn't know what neighborhood she's even in.
[30:37] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[30:38] Speaker 5: Okay.
[30:38] Speaker 2: So.
[30:40] Speaker 5: And it gets worse from here. Oh, God.
[30:42] Speaker 3: So they finish watching that movie.
[30:47] Speaker 5: Stephanie puts on another movie. A movie? Uh-huh. She finishes
[30:51] Speaker 5: an entire movie? Yes, two hours, right?
[30:54] Speaker 3: Or maybe 90 minutes if it's an action film. But, yeah,
[30:59] Speaker 3: then she puts on another one. And then they start
[31:02] Speaker 3: watching that movie. And as they're watching it, a heavy
[31:06] Speaker 3: blanket gets thrown over Tika's head. And this woman starts
[31:10] Speaker 3: beating her in the head. She hits her like 10
[31:13] Speaker 3: times in the head.
[31:14] Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
[31:15] Speaker 3: So Tika jumps up. She puts her hands up and
[31:18] Speaker 3: she says all she can see is blood. So and
[31:23] Speaker 3: then she goes. And when you're in that situation, all
[31:26] Speaker 3: you can think is I got to go.
[31:28] Speaker 5: Yeah. And so she starts running. She gets to the
[31:31] Speaker 5: fucking front door.
[31:33] Speaker 3: And this is like, makes me so crazy. Like when
[31:36] Speaker 3: she was telling it, but it also reminded me of
[31:39] Speaker 3: the other baby snatching story that Sarah Brady told.
[31:42] Speaker 5: In her episode of I Survived that I've.
[31:44] Speaker 3: Already done, where she runs to the front door of
[31:47] Speaker 3: the woman's apartment building and it's locked. And as she
[31:50] Speaker 3: tries to get it open, the woman catches up with
[31:52] Speaker 3: her and grabs her.
[31:53] Speaker 5: And pulls her back. And it's the same thing in
[31:54] Speaker 5: an apartment.
[31:55] Speaker 3: But it's in the apartment where she says she gets
[31:57] Speaker 3: to the door, there's a chain lock, a deadbolt, and
[32:01] Speaker 3: then the bottom lock. So she can't get all three
[32:03] Speaker 3: of them open in time. This woman catches Stephanie, catches
[32:07] Speaker 3: up to her, jumps on her.
[32:09] Speaker 5: And this woman is twice her size.
[32:11] Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
[32:12] Speaker 3: She said she was really big. And it looks like
[32:14] Speaker 3: Tika's pretty petite.
[32:16] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[32:16] Speaker 5: And they start wrestling around on the ground. She's fighting
[32:19] Speaker 5: her off.
[32:19] Speaker 2: And she's seven and a half months pregnant while.
[32:21] Speaker 5: She's doing this. And she's seven and a half months pregnant. So,
[32:26] Speaker 5: try to remember that throughout.
[32:27] Speaker 4: Okay.
[32:30] Speaker 5: So, while they're fighting... And she has a head injury already.
[32:35] Speaker 2: Right.
[32:36] Speaker 5: She has blood in her eyes from that head injury already.
[32:39] Speaker 2: Right.
[32:40] Speaker 3: This woman's trying to choke her out. Tika's fighting back
[32:45] Speaker 3: as hard as she can, but she can't see. And,
[32:48] Speaker 3: you know, the whole thing, this woman picks up a
[32:50] Speaker 3: fireplace poker.
[32:51] Speaker 4: Mm-mm.
[32:52] Speaker 5: Yep.
[32:53] Speaker 3: So if you don't like, if you're squeamish or you
[32:56] Speaker 3: might faint and you're driving a car or whatever, hit
[32:58] Speaker 3: the forward 15 seconds button about three times right now.
[33:01] Speaker 2: Oh, no.
[33:02] Speaker 3: Because this woman picks up a fireplace poker and hits
[33:06] Speaker 3: Tika in the head about 40 times.
[33:08] Speaker 5: What the fuck? Uh-huh. So she, at some point during
[33:12] Speaker 5: that beating.
[33:13] Speaker 2: Passes out.
[33:14] Speaker 5: Steven's like, I can't hit 15 forward. Poor Steven.
[33:18] Speaker 3: Steven just fell backwards and was like, this is my
[33:20] Speaker 3: worst birthday ever.
[33:22] Speaker 5: Sorry.
[33:24] Speaker 4: Sorry.
[33:24] Speaker 2: Oh, Steven.
[33:26] Speaker 5: Okay. So she comes to like two minutes later.
[33:28] Speaker 4: Okay.
[33:29] Speaker 3: As she feels the woman pick her up by the
[33:32] Speaker 3: ankles and drag her down the hallway toward the kitchen.
[33:35] Speaker 5: Oh my God.
[33:36] Speaker 4: So.
[33:36] Speaker 5: Kitchen, nothing good happens in the kitchen. No, not in
[33:38] Speaker 5: this scenario.
[33:39] Speaker 3: Then she hears her rattling around in the kitchen, opening
[33:42] Speaker 3: drawers and doing stuff. Then she, um, the lady kneels
[33:46] Speaker 3: down next to her. And she feels a sharp pain
[33:49] Speaker 3: in her side.
[33:49] Speaker 5: Oh, my God.
[33:50] Speaker 3: And she looks down and she sees the woman's holding
[33:52] Speaker 3: a box cutter.
[33:53] Speaker 5: No.
[33:55] Speaker 3: Oh, squeamish people, you're not going to like when I
[33:57] Speaker 3: say she sees the woman holding a box cutter.
[33:59] Speaker 2: Well, they've still been fast forwarding past this.
[34:01] Speaker 5: Okay, good, good. I'm not going to worry about you anymore.
[34:06] Speaker 5: Not you. The squeamish. We have to fucking deal with it.
[34:10] Speaker 5: That's right. You guys have to take this no matter what.
[34:13] Speaker 3: Steven is holding both his knees in his mouth. Okay,
[34:18] Speaker 3: so blood, of course, starts pouring out her side.
[34:21] Speaker 5: Oh, my God. She said there was blood everywhere. I
[34:24] Speaker 5: fucking bet.
[34:25] Speaker 3: And the woman goes back into the kitchen, this creeped
[34:28] Speaker 3: me out so bad, and starts to pray. So she's
[34:31] Speaker 3: saying stuff like, Lord, forgive me, Lord.
[34:33] Speaker 5: I'm a sinner. I'm so sorry. Which is like, that's
[34:36] Speaker 5: straight out of like a horrible horror movie.
[34:38] Speaker 2: This is like the movie Carrie or something. Or it's like,
[34:41] Speaker 2: we need to pray.
[34:42] Speaker 5: Yes. Like, no, no, you're a fucking psycho. God doesn't
[34:46] Speaker 5: like you. You don't.
[34:48] Speaker 3: Praying won't help anything right now with you have a
[34:51] Speaker 3: fucking box cutter in your prayer hands.
[34:53] Speaker 5: God knows you're about to go back to what you
[34:54] Speaker 5: were fucking doing. And of course she does. So Tika
[34:57] Speaker 5: can't move.
[34:58] Speaker 2: She can't.
[34:59] Speaker 5: She's lost so much blood. She doesn't have the energy
[35:01] Speaker 5: to do anything. She's just laying there.
[35:03] Speaker 3: The woman starts cleaning up the blood. She's just scrubbing, scrubbing, scrubbing, cleaning.
[35:09] Speaker 3: And then she kneels down and asks Tika if she
[35:13] Speaker 3: can get up. And Tika says, I don't think so.
[35:16] Speaker 3: So the woman picks Tika up, carries her back to
[35:19] Speaker 3: the unfurnished bedroom and puts her on a mattress on
[35:22] Speaker 3: the floor. And then she takes Tika's cell phone away
[35:25] Speaker 3: from her and turns it off.
[35:27] Speaker 5: Oh, no. Yeah.
[35:29] Speaker 3: So eventually, as she's laying there on this mattress on
[35:33] Speaker 3: the floor, her bleeding stops and she thinks maybe I
[35:38] Speaker 3: can talk to her and she'll let me go.
[35:40] Speaker 5: Maybe if I.
[35:40] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[35:41] Speaker 3: The thing that most people do where it's like humanize yourself.
[35:44] Speaker 3: So she starts saying, you know. I guess based on
[35:48] Speaker 3: the information she had in the conversation on the car
[35:50] Speaker 3: ride over, she's like, she talked about her kids. She
[35:53] Speaker 3: talked about Stephanie's kids. She talked about her own kids.
[35:56] Speaker 3: And she basically said to Stephanie, I would never tell
[35:59] Speaker 3: on you because I don't believe in breaking families up.
[36:02] Speaker 3: I wouldn't want a person to lose their family. Stephanie
[36:05] Speaker 3: starts pacing in circles and going. She said she could
[36:09] Speaker 3: tell it was working on her because she's pacing and
[36:11] Speaker 3: murmuring to herself. And freaking out. And at one point,
[36:15] Speaker 3: Stephanie says, I got to get out of this apartment.
[36:18] Speaker 3: Tika's like, oh, yeah, really? Me too. Then Tika says,
[36:22] Speaker 3: and this is another one of those moments you're just like, fuck, man.
[36:25] Speaker 3: She said, but I know she's not just going to
[36:27] Speaker 3: leave me there because I've seen her face and I know.
[36:29] Speaker 5: Where she lives.
[36:30] Speaker 2: Shit.
[36:31] Speaker 3: So at this point, she has been held. She's been
[36:34] Speaker 3: battered and bleeding, held in this apartment for three nights.
[36:38] Speaker 5: Three nights?
[36:38] Speaker 3: Yeah, this is continued over like all of these things
[36:41] Speaker 3: that she's done and taking.
[36:42] Speaker 5: Her to the room and all that.
[36:43] Speaker 2: I was expecting like one afternoon. No, no, no.
[36:45] Speaker 5: Like it's like the initial beating and then a night.
[36:48] Speaker 3: And she said the first night she played movies all
[36:52] Speaker 3: night and Tika didn't sleep all night.
[36:54] Speaker 5: She just stayed up watching the woman. Oh my God.
[36:58] Speaker 3: Like because she was obviously like just didn't know what
[37:01] Speaker 3: was going to happen next. So then the third night.
[37:07] Speaker 3: Stephanie walks into the bedroom and she's holding a metal
[37:09] Speaker 3: bowl full of ice with a rag in it.
[37:11] Speaker 5: Oh, no. A rag's on her shoulder. She's got six
[37:14] Speaker 5: towels and two box cutters and a knife.
[37:17] Speaker 2: No, no.
[37:17] Speaker 5: Why do people use box cutters? It's... it's so, it's
[37:22] Speaker 5: so awful. And the rag over her shoulder, like your
[37:24] Speaker 5: mom did that. That's actually my, that's my mom at Thanksgiving.
[37:28] Speaker 5: I know I'm picturing your mom right now. Totally.
[37:31] Speaker 3: My mom would be fully dressed to the nines and
[37:34] Speaker 3: then she would have the dirtiest dish towel on her shoulder.
[37:36] Speaker 5: Cause she'd be like pulling stuff out of the oven.
[37:38] Speaker 2: We call that a schmata in Yiddish.
[37:41] Speaker 5: A little schmata.
[37:42] Speaker 2: Just like a gross rag that you used to clean with.
[37:45] Speaker 5: That's funny, because on TV, we used to always.
[37:47] Speaker 3: On the Ellen Show, Andy Lassner used to always say,
[37:49] Speaker 3: we need a schmata to cover this. I always thought
[37:52] Speaker 3: it meant, like, a nice tablecloth.
[37:54] Speaker 2: Oh, no.
[37:55] Speaker 5: Just like a piece of shit. Just like something. We
[37:58] Speaker 5: need to throw something over this. Throw some rag over there.
[38:00] Speaker 2: Okay, so.
[38:01] Speaker 5: Nightmare time.
[38:03] Speaker 3: Anyone coming at you with a metal bowl full of ice,
[38:06] Speaker 3: run the fuck... If you can run.
[38:07] Speaker 5: Bad intentions. There's nothing good at the end of that.
[38:10] Speaker 2: So....
[38:12] Speaker 3: Then, and this is very upsetting, and it also is
[38:16] Speaker 3: something that was featured. Did you watch the assassination of
[38:19] Speaker 3: Gianni Versace?
[38:21] Speaker 5: No, I haven't watched that yet. It's good.
[38:22] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[38:22] Speaker 5: It's really good.
[38:24] Speaker 3: I hadn't watched it because, of course, there was online,
[38:27] Speaker 3: we're not sure if we like it or not, which
[38:29] Speaker 3: I always then go, oh, forget it. And then someone
[38:31] Speaker 3: was like, are you crazy? It's the best, and you
[38:33] Speaker 3: will love it.
[38:34] Speaker 2: And I did.
[38:35] Speaker 5: And it's brilliant.
[38:36] Speaker 3: But there's one part where he has a victim, and...
[38:39] Speaker 3: And this is what happened to Tika. Stephanie wrapped her
[38:42] Speaker 3: head in duct tape.
[38:45] Speaker 5: What? So her eyes are covered. Her whole head is covered.
[38:48] Speaker 5: She can barely breathe through her nose.
[38:49] Speaker 2: I don't like it.
[38:51] Speaker 5: Everything's covered. It's the worst. It's so claustrophobic. And it's
[38:57] Speaker 5: such a psychotic move to sue to someone. It's insane.
[39:01] Speaker 3: And it's incredibly dehumanizing. It's like this person that I'm
[39:04] Speaker 3: attacking isn't a person.
[39:06] Speaker 5: It's crazy. And it's something that.
[39:09] Speaker 3: that um andrew konan did as well wow so not
[39:14] Speaker 3: a good sign if you're doing what andrew konan does
[39:16] Speaker 3: no i'm not on your side immediate fail uh okay
[39:20] Speaker 3: so now it's going to get worse squeamish people if
[39:22] Speaker 3: you if you suddenly thought that you were somehow in
[39:25] Speaker 3: a landing.
[39:25] Speaker 2: Place you aren't i did i'm not.
[39:28] Speaker 3: No go back to being on your toes. So, Tika,
[39:33] Speaker 3: this is how she explains it on the show. She
[39:36] Speaker 3: just says, she wraps her head in duct tape, and
[39:39] Speaker 3: then she just starts cutting.
[39:43] Speaker 5: So, she talks... Stephanie starts at the top of Tika's
[39:48] Speaker 5: pelvic area and just starts cutting upward. Fast forward, fast forward,
[39:53] Speaker 5: fast forward. This is real life.
[39:56] Speaker 3: Uh, but she doesn't have the correct tools. It's not
[39:58] Speaker 3: like a surgical cut. She is, she's using fucking kitchen
[40:02] Speaker 3: knives and box cutters.
[40:03] Speaker 5: Who knows how deep to go? Who knows how, I mean, like,
[40:05] Speaker 5: how do you know this woman knows nothing. And Tika, this,
[40:08] Speaker 5: as she describes it, it's so fucking awful. And she's
[40:11] Speaker 5: just like, I could feel every cut. She felt every
[40:15] Speaker 5: single thing this woman did. And she said she was having,
[40:18] Speaker 5: she started to have a hard time breaking Tika's skin.
[40:20] Speaker 5: I'm sweating.
[40:21] Speaker 2: I'm sweating. No, it's bad.
[40:23] Speaker 5: It's super bad.
[40:25] Speaker 3: So she starts picking at it. Then when she opens
[40:28] Speaker 3: the skin, then she's cutting through muscle. It's like, and
[40:32] Speaker 3: she's just laying there feeling it.
[40:34] Speaker 5: Now, this was the part that got tweeted. She's saying
[40:37] Speaker 5: this shit on I Survived? Yes, she's telling this story.
[40:40] Speaker 5: And they're like leaving all that stuff in?
[40:42] Speaker 3: Well, it's what fucking happened to her. And it's what
[40:44] Speaker 3: she lived through. She gets to tell it. But this
[40:47] Speaker 3: is the best part. She goes, this whole time this
[40:50] Speaker 3: is happening to me, she's playing the Michael Jackson movie,
[40:53] Speaker 3: This Is It. And she's going back to the movie
[40:57] Speaker 3: and rewinding it. If it gets to like the talking
[40:59] Speaker 3: head documentary part, she'll rewind it back to the song
[41:03] Speaker 3: performance part. And she said she's blasting the music and
[41:06] Speaker 3: just playing the songs.
[41:08] Speaker 2: Over and over.
[41:09] Speaker 5: What?
[41:09] Speaker 2: Michael Jackson?
[41:10] Speaker 3: And she said, I'm laying there cut open. Even I'm thinking,
[41:14] Speaker 3: why is she playing this over and over? And then
[41:16] Speaker 3: she goes, because I hate Michael Jackson anyway. And that's
[41:20] Speaker 3: the clip that got sent.
[41:22] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I saw. I did not realize how
[41:24] Speaker 2: horrifying that quote was.
[41:26] Speaker 5: In the middle. Surrounded by what was happening. Yeah, in
[41:29] Speaker 5: the middle of that.
[41:30] Speaker 3: And also, that's that thing where, and I've said this
[41:32] Speaker 3: a million times, but I survived. that's that thing about
[41:36] Speaker 3: the women or men that are on that show. When
[41:38] Speaker 3: they tell these stories, they've been through it already. And
[41:41] Speaker 3: it's this proof that you can go through fucking anything
[41:44] Speaker 3: and remain resilient and strong and be able to tell
[41:47] Speaker 3: your own story. It's what makes me cry every time.
[41:50] Speaker 3: And she's like laughing in the middle of it going. And,
[41:53] Speaker 3: but she said that was the moment where she saw
[41:55] Speaker 3: the big picture of what was happening. And she said,
[41:58] Speaker 3: it blew my mind. Like how insane this, like how
[42:02] Speaker 3: insane this is for her. So, So anyway, it's just
[42:06] Speaker 3: so crazy.
[42:07] Speaker 5: She shits on Michael Jackson.
[42:08] Speaker 3: All right.
[42:09] Speaker 5: And then she says it like, anyway, like, I don't
[42:11] Speaker 5: want to get into that. Like, I know everyone's going
[42:12] Speaker 5: to hate me for this. I know that's an unpopular opinion. Right.
[42:15] Speaker 5: We'll talk about it later. You can hate whoever you want.
[42:18] Speaker 2: Forever.
[42:19] Speaker 5: Forever.
[42:20] Speaker 3: So when she, so of course, eventually she, he or
[42:25] Speaker 3: she passes out. But even then, what a, like the
[42:28] Speaker 3: idea that she was awake for that, having those thoughts,
[42:31] Speaker 3: like she's a fucking warrior.
[42:33] Speaker 5: It's crazy. Totally.
[42:34] Speaker 3: So when she wakes up, she's on the bed and
[42:39] Speaker 3: Stephanie's laying in a fetal position on the floor.
[42:41] Speaker 5: In front of the doorway in the bedroom. So she
[42:46] Speaker 5: realizes Tika realizes she tries to. roll over.
[42:51] Speaker 3: Like she's like, this might be my chance to get
[42:53] Speaker 3: out of here. So she tries to roll over. And
[42:55] Speaker 3: when she does, the metal bowl is still sitting on
[42:58] Speaker 3: the mattress with her.
[42:59] Speaker 5: Her wedding ring hits the bowl and makes a ringing sound.
[43:02] Speaker 4: Oh no.
[43:03] Speaker 5: And she freezes, but Stephanie does not wake up.
[43:05] Speaker 2: Oh my God.
[43:06] Speaker 3: So she says, thanks to herself and praise to God. If,
[43:11] Speaker 3: if I can just stand up, I'll get out of here.
[43:14] Speaker 3: So she pushes her fucking self up and she says,
[43:17] Speaker 3: She said she asked God to give her strength from
[43:19] Speaker 3: somewhere to just get her in standing position.
[43:22] Speaker 5: And she fucking does it.
[43:23] Speaker 2: Holy shit.
[43:24] Speaker 3: She starts sneaking across the room.
[43:27] Speaker 5: She steps over Stephanie. Oh, my God.
[43:29] Speaker 4: Oh, my God.
[43:30] Speaker 3: Blood drips onto Stephanie. She freezes, thinking Stephanie's going to
[43:35] Speaker 3: wake up and grab her.
[43:37] Speaker 5: But she doesn't.
[43:38] Speaker 3: So then she steps the second foot over and starts
[43:41] Speaker 3: going up the hallway. Now, the squeamish people who thought
[43:45] Speaker 3: things were bad before.
[43:46] Speaker 5: Oh, no, it's not over.
[43:47] Speaker 3: It's going to get worse for a second. And it's
[43:51] Speaker 3: very bad. As she's going up the hallway, she's leaning
[43:55] Speaker 3: on one wall, getting herself up the hallway, halfway up
[43:57] Speaker 3: the hallway. The contents of her torso fall out of her.
[44:02] Speaker 5: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Karen.
[44:05] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[44:07] Speaker 5: Uh-huh. Oh, my God. She picks up.
[44:09] Speaker 2: No, stop.
[44:10] Speaker 5: She picks it up and she keeps going. What the fuck? Yes.
[44:15] Speaker 2: Yes.
[44:16] Speaker 5: She fucking gets to that front door again, opens all
[44:19] Speaker 5: three locks, and gets out of the fucking apartment. Uh-huh.
[44:27] Speaker 5: It's the worst. It's the worst. She starts yelling for help.
[44:31] Speaker 5: She starts knocking on apartment doors. Nobody comes.
[44:34] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
[44:35] Speaker 5: She makes it down the stairs, and at the bottom
[44:38] Speaker 5: of the staircase, she passes out.
[44:40] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
[44:42] Speaker 3: Fucking Stephanie comes out the door, sees her down at
[44:46] Speaker 3: the bottom of the stairs, makes her way down, tries
[44:50] Speaker 3: to scoop her arms underneath Tika's arms to pull her
[44:53] Speaker 3: back up the stairs. And Tika starts fucking fighting. She
[44:57] Speaker 3: said she bit her fingers.
[44:59] Speaker 2: She fought.
[45:00] Speaker 5: She screamed for help.
[45:01] Speaker 3: Now a guy fucking finally comes down from the third
[45:04] Speaker 3: floor and he's like, what's going on? And fucking Stephanie
[45:08] Speaker 3: and her nice, lilty, pretty voice goes, she's delusional and
[45:12] Speaker 3: I'm just trying to help her and she's fighting against me.
[45:14] Speaker 2: She's covered in blood and dying.
[45:17] Speaker 3: Tika, and she says, and she keeps talking over me.
[45:20] Speaker 3: But Tika looks up at the man and goes, help me.
[45:23] Speaker 3: She's trying to kill me. Then she realizes the man
[45:27] Speaker 3: isn't reacting to the situation because she's wearing a navy
[45:30] Speaker 3: blue shirt and. And it's not showing the blood and
[45:33] Speaker 3: the shit that's going on under her shirt. So she,
[45:36] Speaker 3: as she's looking at him, she pulls her shirt up
[45:38] Speaker 3: and she.
[45:39] Speaker 5: Said, the man yelled, I'm calling the cops and ran
[45:42] Speaker 5: back upstairs.
[45:44] Speaker 4: Yep.
[45:44] Speaker 3: And so with that, Stephanie looked at her as, and
[45:49] Speaker 3: this is the way Tika says it in the show.
[45:51] Speaker 3: She says, she looked at me as if she was saying,
[45:54] Speaker 3: I should have killed you. And then she ran away.
[45:57] Speaker 3: So now she's just bleeding out on the stairs and,
[46:01] Speaker 3: The EMTs and the firemen come. She's got somebody comes
[46:05] Speaker 3: and leans down next to her and goes, ma'am, are
[46:09] Speaker 3: you hurt?
[46:11] Speaker 5: Because she has this fucking shirt on that is making
[46:14] Speaker 5: everything much more subtle than it is. And she says, yes.
[46:18] Speaker 5: She's answering.
[46:20] Speaker 3: Yes, I've been beaten and I've been cut and I
[46:23] Speaker 3: need help. And then she pulls her shirt up. And
[46:26] Speaker 3: this this is Washington, D.C. I'm sure it wasn't this
[46:28] Speaker 3: guy's first day on the job. She said he looked
[46:31] Speaker 3: like he was going to throw up right there. She's
[46:34] Speaker 3: rushed into surgery. She has emergency surgery. She wakes up
[46:38] Speaker 3: from the surgery, as we know, because again, it's called
[46:41] Speaker 3: I Survived. PJ is sitting there by her bedside.
[46:43] Speaker 2: Oh, PJ.
[46:44] Speaker 5: PJ's there.
[46:46] Speaker 3: The first thing she says is, is the baby alive?
[46:48] Speaker 3: A nurse walks in to come and check on her.
[46:52] Speaker 3: And when she asks the nurse, is her baby alive?
[46:55] Speaker 3: The nurse says, you gave birth to an eight pound,
[46:58] Speaker 3: two ounce baby girl.
[47:02] Speaker 5: So apparently... The baby was balled up way at the
[47:07] Speaker 5: top of the womb.
[47:09] Speaker 3: I don't know if that was like a reaction, like
[47:11] Speaker 3: a chemical reaction pulled her upward or if that's just
[47:15] Speaker 3: how she was sitting in her stomach.
[47:17] Speaker 5: But basically, they couldn't get to her. Oh, also, I
[47:21] Speaker 5: just remembered a part that I.
[47:22] Speaker 3: Will not say. But if you think you heard the
[47:24] Speaker 3: worst part, you didn't. There was way fucking worse shit.
[47:27] Speaker 5: I bet you'll tell me after we record. No, I'm
[47:30] Speaker 5: mad at you because I read it. I read it
[47:32] Speaker 5: and I'm not going to tell you. I didn't do anything.
[47:33] Speaker 4: No, I know.
[47:36] Speaker 3: So then in the show, she says, I told them
[47:39] Speaker 3: I'm going to name her Miracle because.
[47:41] Speaker 5: I was going to guess Miracle. Were you really? Yes.
[47:43] Speaker 3: She says, I'm going to name her Miracle because I
[47:46] Speaker 3: survived and she survived. And fucking, you have to look up,
[47:51] Speaker 3: I mean, we'll post a picture of Miracle. She's got
[47:54] Speaker 3: a fucking pacifier in her mouth that says, I heart mommy.
[47:56] Speaker 5: Yeah. And she is this chubby. She looks like a
[48:00] Speaker 5: picture of a baby. Eight pounds at fucking seven and
[48:02] Speaker 5: a half months is a big baby. That's a big
[48:05] Speaker 5: fucking baby.
[48:05] Speaker 3: And she looks like one of those babies in a
[48:09] Speaker 3: Target ad. You know those ones they just sit them
[48:11] Speaker 3: by themselves and you're like, it's just this fully formed
[48:13] Speaker 3: baby that's gorgeous. That's what Miracle Sky looked like, her
[48:17] Speaker 3: full name.
[48:19] Speaker 2: Okay.
[48:20] Speaker 5: Tiga's attacker's real name is Veronica Dramas, I guess.
[48:25] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
[48:27] Speaker 3: She called the cops on herself, and they came and
[48:29] Speaker 3: picked her up. She pled guilty to assault, and she's
[48:33] Speaker 3: sentenced to 25.
[48:34] Speaker 5: Years in jail.
[48:35] Speaker 4: That's it?
[48:35] Speaker 5: That's attempted murder.
[48:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[48:37] Speaker 5: Well, I guess they couldn't prove attempted murder.
[48:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know.
[48:40] Speaker 5: Because there was all these other stories.
[48:42] Speaker 3: Because Veronica tried to tell them that she offered Tika five.
[48:46] Speaker 5: Grand for her baby. Right. And she basically seeded all
[48:50] Speaker 5: this doubt.
[48:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[48:51] Speaker 3: Which is so fucked up because it's like, if that
[48:53] Speaker 3: was the deal, first of all, you would not take
[48:55] Speaker 3: five grand. And secondly, you'd be like, it's a baby.
[48:58] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[48:59] Speaker 3: We should be in like the five digit area. But
[49:01] Speaker 3: on top of that, you'd fucking have the baby.
[49:04] Speaker 5: At nine months in a hospital. Right. You fucking, all
[49:08] Speaker 5: you assholes. Okay. So, so mad.
[49:11] Speaker 3: On Monday, January 4th, 2010. 29-year-old Tika Adams, which 29...
[49:16] Speaker 3: I tell you what, and it's... She.
[49:18] Speaker 5: If you told me.
[49:20] Speaker 3: me she was 17 i would have believed you she's
[49:23] Speaker 3: anyway so jealous um she faces her attacker in court
[49:27] Speaker 3: she goes to the preliminary preliminary trial and fucking when
[49:31] Speaker 3: that woman is brought into the courtroom she looks her
[49:33] Speaker 3: in the eye she bring she brings miracle to the
[49:35] Speaker 3: preliminary trial they're sitting there and then she fucking mad
[49:39] Speaker 3: dogs her as she comes. Apparently it was very hard
[49:42] Speaker 3: and she was really shaken. Obviously she made a full
[49:45] Speaker 3: physical recovery though, which I cannot believe.
[49:49] Speaker 5: It's amazing. So amazing.
[49:51] Speaker 3: They must've had insane, amazing doctors like at whatever that
[49:55] Speaker 3: hospital she went to. But, but of course her emotional
[49:58] Speaker 3: recovery took much longer because that's fucking insane. Um, but, uh, Oh,
[50:06] Speaker 3: I just had this part of the news, so I
[50:08] Speaker 3: read an article about that afterwards. Miracle was dressed in
[50:12] Speaker 3: a pink outfit with matching mittens, booties, and a hat.
[50:19] Speaker 3: And so Tika didn't have to testify against that woman.
[50:22] Speaker 3: They were just figuring out if there was enough evidence
[50:25] Speaker 3: to bring it all to trial.
[50:27] Speaker 2: Right.
[50:29] Speaker 5: In the, uh, the public at the time, public defender.
[50:33] Speaker 3: Kim Robinson tried to argue that the attempted first degree
[50:37] Speaker 3: murder charge that they tried to bring against her wouldn't
[50:39] Speaker 3: hold up because there was no evidence that Dramas intended.
[50:43] Speaker 5: To kill Tika. I mean, come on. Two box cutters.
[50:48] Speaker 5: What the fuck? Yeah. From the blood loss alone, she
[50:50] Speaker 5: would have died. I mean, nothing about it is saying
[50:53] Speaker 5: she didn't want her dead. Yeah.
[50:55] Speaker 3: Um, Luckily, Prince George County District Judge Thurman H. Rhodes disagreed,
[51:01] Speaker 3: found sufficient probable cause for all charges. And she ended
[51:04] Speaker 3: up Veronica ended up going to jail. And her and
[51:10] Speaker 3: Tika's father, Gregory Burnett, was also there. And he told reporters.
[51:14] Speaker 3: Tika's my youngest daughter, so I felt like she was
[51:17] Speaker 3: trying to take my baby.
[51:18] Speaker 5: Aww.
[51:19] Speaker 3: Which is, I mean, let's all cry for 95 fucking
[51:22] Speaker 3: different reasons.
[51:22] Speaker 5: Can we?
[51:23] Speaker 3: But, of course, at the end of I Survived, as
[51:26] Speaker 3: we all know, they make you say why you think
[51:30] Speaker 3: you survived.
[51:31] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[51:31] Speaker 5: That's, like, the speech everyone gives.
[51:32] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[51:33] Speaker 3: And this is what Tika said. I survived because I
[51:36] Speaker 3: was coming to a point in my life where I
[51:38] Speaker 3: started to love myself and respect myself.
[51:41] Speaker 5: Ooh. and cherish life. And I survived because of God
[51:45] Speaker 5: and my support system.
[51:46] Speaker 3: I know a lot of people love me and I
[51:48] Speaker 3: know that God loves me. And like they say, God
[51:52] Speaker 3: looks after babies and fools. And I had a baby
[51:54] Speaker 3: and I was a fool. And then she goes, yep.
[52:00] Speaker 2: And she crying when she says all this, I can't, she.
[52:04] Speaker 5: Doesn't really cry that much in this. I cried the
[52:06] Speaker 5: whole fucking time. I'm crying now. And when she gives
[52:10] Speaker 5: the speech at the end, She just has that, she's
[52:13] Speaker 5: been through everything. It's like she's been through everything.
[52:16] Speaker 3: And now here she is wearing this fucking rad blue shirt,
[52:20] Speaker 3: looking gorgeous.
[52:21] Speaker 5: It's so crazy.
[52:22] Speaker 2: That's fucking gnarly.
[52:25] Speaker 3: And the last, the very last card that comes up
[52:28] Speaker 3: says Tika and her family now live in an apartment
[52:31] Speaker 3: in Washington, D.C.
[52:33] Speaker 4: Oh, good.
[52:34] Speaker 5: Come on.
[52:36] Speaker 3: And that is Tika Adams' story of survival that I love.
[52:40] Speaker 5: Karen! God bless. Once again, Charlotte White, you made it happen.
[52:44] Speaker 5: You gave me the idea. Thank you.
[52:45] Speaker 2: That was great.
[52:50] Speaker 4: Okay, we're back. Karen, any case updates?
[52:52] Speaker 3: There are no updates for Tika's case, but it is interesting.
[52:58] Speaker 3: I have covered a different attempt at a fetal abduction case,
[53:01] Speaker 3: which was the survival story of Sarah Brady from episode 23.
[53:06] Speaker 3: But recently, Netflix released a documentary titled Titled Maternal Instinct
[53:10] Speaker 3: that everyone's been talking about.
[53:12] Speaker 4: I totally watched it.
[53:13] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[53:13] Speaker 3: But this fake pregnancy scheme resulted in the murder of
[53:17] Speaker 3: 21-year-old Reagan Simmons Hancock.
[53:19] Speaker 2: It's a really, it's a really heartbreaking story. I was
[53:22] Speaker 2: hesitant to watch the documentary because it's just such a
[53:25] Speaker 2: horrifying crime. But, I mean, it is a good show
[53:29] Speaker 2: in that it's like just mind-boggling how someone could do
[53:32] Speaker 2: these things.
[53:33] Speaker 5: These women who get obsessed with having a baby and
[53:36] Speaker 5: taking a baby. It's such a strange story. foreign thing.
[53:40] Speaker 3: But according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children,
[53:44] Speaker 3: there were 21 documented fetal abduction cases in the United
[53:47] Speaker 3: States between 1987 and 2022. And 19 of those ended
[53:53] Speaker 3: with the pregnant woman being killed.
[53:56] Speaker 4: Yes. That seems like so much of a larger number
[53:58] Speaker 4: than I would have guessed.
[53:59] Speaker 5: Right?
[54:00] Speaker 2: Wow.
[54:00] Speaker 5: Like, the Sarah Brady case I thought was a one-off. Yeah.
[54:03] Speaker 5: Then the Tika Adams case where it's like, oh, my God.
[54:05] Speaker 4: There's two of these.
[54:06] Speaker 5: Yes.
[54:06] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[54:07] Speaker 5: And now it's like, oh, no, there have been more
[54:10] Speaker 5: than anyone wants to even consider.
[54:12] Speaker 2: Terrifying.
[54:13] Speaker 5: It's just crazy.
[54:15] Speaker 4: Okay.
[54:16] Speaker 2: So.
[54:17] Speaker 3: Let's get into George's story from this episode, and it
[54:20] Speaker 3: is the West Mesa Bone Collector.
[54:29] Speaker 4: All right.
[54:29] Speaker 2: Yes.
[54:30] Speaker 5: My turn.
[54:31] Speaker 2: Do it.
[54:32] Speaker 5: Here we go.
[54:32] Speaker 3: Roll up those sleeves like a member of a gang
[54:36] Speaker 3: from The Outsiders and really give me this story.
[54:38] Speaker 2: You're just saying that because I'm wearing overall shorts for
[54:40] Speaker 2: some reason.
[54:41] Speaker 5: What is wrong with me?
[54:42] Speaker 3: George is wearing overall shorts like the most precious little
[54:45] Speaker 3: kindergartner I've ever seen.
[54:47] Speaker 2: Here's the problem. I saw some Instagram fashion influencers wearing
[54:52] Speaker 2: these and I was like, they look so cute. And
[54:55] Speaker 2: now I got them and I'm like, oh, no. I
[54:58] Speaker 2: am not that.
[54:59] Speaker 5: Are you having influencer envy? I think I am. Well,
[55:04] Speaker 5: I'd like to say, I think it's going to be
[55:07] Speaker 5: roughly five words to you. What? Compare and despair. That's
[55:10] Speaker 5: three words.
[55:11] Speaker 2: Okay.
[55:12] Speaker 5: Compare and despair. Okay. Don't compare yourself to other people
[55:16] Speaker 5: because then you will despair. I'm like, I'm already doing that. No, no, no.
[55:19] Speaker 4: I want it.
[55:20] Speaker 5: Don't compare or you'll despair.
[55:22] Speaker 2: Okay, there we go.
[55:22] Speaker 5: I think they tried to get it down as short
[55:24] Speaker 5: as possible. You know, I'm not comparing. I just also
[55:26] Speaker 5: don't think these look good on me.
[55:27] Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like specifically me. I'm fine
[55:29] Speaker 2: with it.
[55:30] Speaker 3: I've only seen you sitting down in them.
[55:32] Speaker 5: I need to see you mingle around in a party.
[55:34] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[55:34] Speaker 5: That's a different level, Georgia. But I think you can
[55:36] Speaker 5: pull that off.
[55:37] Speaker 1: Yeah.
[55:37] Speaker 2: You've got fucking bangs back, pigtails, no makeup. With my
[55:41] Speaker 2: sleeves rolled up.
[55:42] Speaker 5: All right, let me do this.
[55:43] Speaker 3: I'm wearing a shirt that I have worn. I wore
[55:47] Speaker 3: it in the video that we posted for the fans.
[55:49] Speaker 3: I've worn it pretty much every day since that video
[55:52] Speaker 3: was made. It's covered in dog hair. I don't owe
[55:56] Speaker 3: anybody anything.
[55:56] Speaker 2: Listen, I'm going to— five words. If it's not broken, why
[56:01] Speaker 2: do you need to change it?
[56:02] Speaker 5: It's fine. Everything's fine.
[56:03] Speaker 2: Just like give it a quick lint roll, maybe throw
[56:05] Speaker 2: it in the dryer and everything's fine.
[56:07] Speaker 5: Four, five.
[56:08] Speaker 4: Yes. Nice.
[56:09] Speaker 5: Let's make it. That's the new shirt.
[56:12] Speaker 2: That's the new shirt that you have to wear every day.
[56:14] Speaker 5: Says that on it. Yes.
[56:17] Speaker 3: And we will print the shirt and there will be
[56:19] Speaker 3: a dog hair on the print of the shirt.
[56:21] Speaker 5: So you'll never be able to lint roll it off.
[56:23] Speaker 5: It'll be printed into the ink.
[56:25] Speaker 2: Yes.
[56:25] Speaker 5: Cat and dog hair. Each one of our pets will
[56:27] Speaker 5: contribute a hair. Yeah. To the printing of the shirt.
[56:31] Speaker 5: George can't wait to donate all of her hair and
[56:34] Speaker 5: some of her fingernails. We're going to shave all our pets.
[56:36] Speaker 2: Let's do that. We're going to have a video. Listen,
[56:38] Speaker 2: you have to join the fan cult because there's going
[56:40] Speaker 2: to be a video of us shaving our pets.
[56:41] Speaker 5: Oh, you're going to love it. It's going to be glorious. Um. Anyhow.
[56:47] Speaker 2: Anyhow. Let's do this.
[56:48] Speaker 5: Okay.
[56:49] Speaker 2: All right. This murder or collection of murders has a
[56:56] Speaker 2: very chilling name.
[56:58] Speaker 5: You know this one. It's the West Mesa Bone Collector. Oh, fuck. Yep.
[57:03] Speaker 5: I know of it, but I'm confusing it with.
[57:06] Speaker 3: All those bodies in Juarez. Like I'm thinking of the
[57:09] Speaker 3: Southwest and skeletons.
[57:11] Speaker 2: And the Long Island serial killer too, right? Like the
[57:14] Speaker 2: collection of bodies.
[57:15] Speaker 4: Yes.
[57:15] Speaker 5: That kind of thing.
[57:16] Speaker 2: All right. Well, I'm just going to do this time
[57:18] Speaker 2: the West Mesa serial killer.
[57:21] Speaker 5: No, you have to do all the cases I mentioned.
[57:23] Speaker 5: Or this is not real. Buckle up, everyone. I'm doing
[57:26] Speaker 5: all of them. Or this isn't real. Or this is
[57:30] Speaker 5: a different plane of existence. Or reality is canceled. Reality
[57:34] Speaker 5: is canceled. Next, next, next shirt. All right.
[57:37] Speaker 2: Mid 2005, Karen, Detective Ida Lopez is the only missing
[57:42] Speaker 2: persons detective for Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is the largest
[57:46] Speaker 2: city in New Mexico with about half a million people.
[57:51] Speaker 2: In Albuquerque, the rate of violent crime is more than
[57:53] Speaker 2: double the national average. Oh, shit.
[57:55] Speaker 5: I didn't know that.
[57:56] Speaker 2: There's a lot of it.
[57:58] Speaker 5: Isn't Albuquerque like where Better Call Saul takes place and stuff?
[58:01] Speaker 5: And even before that, Breaking Bad. Oh, for real?
[58:04] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[58:04] Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
[58:05] Speaker 2: Breaking Bad is like.
[58:06] Speaker 5: Breaking Bad really brought Albuquerque to the fore. It really did.
[58:09] Speaker 5: It's a fucking excellent, crazy show. It's so good.
[58:12] Speaker 2: But it does. Yeah.
[58:13] Speaker 5: But there's some shit going down in Albuquerque.
[58:15] Speaker 2: There's shit going down, like balanced with a kind of suburban,
[58:18] Speaker 2: normal life.
[58:19] Speaker 5: It's like a really, it seemed like a really.
[58:21] Speaker 2: Weird city in that it's some really horrible, dangerous, scary
[58:24] Speaker 2: shit going on.
[58:26] Speaker 3: And right outside the development of the housing development.
[58:29] Speaker 5: Exactly.
[58:30] Speaker 2: People trying to raise their, like, you know, any city,
[58:32] Speaker 2: but double Z's in this one.
[58:35] Speaker 5: But I wonder if that's changed since 2005. I bet
[58:37] Speaker 5: it has. And I hope people tell us. Stephen will
[58:39] Speaker 5: give us a birthday report about Albuquerque's current crime right
[58:44] Speaker 5: after this murder.
[58:45] Speaker 2: We need you to dress up like Albuquerque. This is
[58:46] Speaker 2: going to be like a show and tell for school.
[58:49] Speaker 2: Can I just, sorry, but can I just tell you
[58:51] Speaker 2: this really quick? Are you going to tell me about
[58:52] Speaker 2: how the one country that was left when you had
[58:55] Speaker 2: to do your presentation in elementary school was?
[58:58] Speaker 5: Was Iceland?
[58:59] Speaker 4: Iceland.
[58:59] Speaker 2: No.
[59:00] Speaker 5: I've already told you that four times, so you don't
[59:02] Speaker 5: need to hear that again. No, when my sister and
[59:04] Speaker 5: Nora were just visiting me, there was, we were at.
[59:08] Speaker 2: Nora's your 10-year-old niece, just remember. knows.
[59:10] Speaker 5: Yep.
[59:11] Speaker 3: And we were at Wood Ranch Grill, and the kids'
[59:14] Speaker 3: menu had a quiz testing you on state capitals.
[59:19] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
[59:19] Speaker 3: And my sister and I couldn't stop laughing because in
[59:21] Speaker 3: sixth grade, when my sister was in sixth grade, she
[59:24] Speaker 3: had to get tested on state capitals. So she, on
[59:26] Speaker 3: our family's brand new stereo, where she plugged in a
[59:30] Speaker 3: microphone that came.
[59:31] Speaker 5: With the kit. Oh my God, the first podcast ever made. Exactly.
[59:34] Speaker 3: And it was a cassette tape that my sister recorded
[59:36] Speaker 3: and talked into this, into this microphone where she recited
[59:41] Speaker 3: every state alphabetically and its state capitol and and then
[59:45] Speaker 3: listen to the tape.
[59:46] Speaker 5: So both of us know state capitals because- That's brilliant.
[59:49] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[59:50] Speaker 5: That's how I learned too, is just repetition.
[59:52] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[59:52] Speaker 5: Did you record it like that and listen to yourself?
[59:55] Speaker 2: I don't think we had those capabilities in the hard
[59:57] Speaker 2: stark household.
[59:58] Speaker 5: We were pretty high end.
[59:59] Speaker 2: You were pretty rich, Karen, is what you're bragging about.
[1:00:01] Speaker 5: Incredibly rich.
[1:00:02] Speaker 3: If you leave today's podcast with anything, please know that
[1:00:06] Speaker 3: we were definitely the 1%.
[1:00:07] Speaker 5: The Kilgariffs were moneyed. Not in the least, but we're laughing.
[1:00:14] Speaker 5: And then Nora starts testing us on state capitals. And
[1:00:17] Speaker 5: my sister knew all of them. And I was making
[1:00:20] Speaker 5: up cities. And I was like, wait, I was just there.
[1:00:25] Speaker 5: Have no recall whatsoever. You seizured that away a long
[1:00:28] Speaker 5: time ago. Thank you.
[1:00:29] Speaker 2: I was going to say drink that away, but then
[1:00:31] Speaker 2: I was like, that's not as nice.
[1:00:33] Speaker 5: Something she can't control, like the seizures, is nicer. Thank you.
[1:00:36] Speaker 5: It's like not an accusation. It's more like, poor you.
[1:00:38] Speaker 5: You lost all your state capitals when those seizures hit.
[1:00:40] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:00:41] Speaker 5: And you know what?
[1:00:42] Speaker 2: In solidarity, I did the same thing with you. I
[1:00:44] Speaker 2: just lost them all.
[1:00:45] Speaker 5: You induced some seizures in yourself? No, no.
[1:00:47] Speaker 2: I just don't know the state capitals. That's friendship. I know.
[1:00:50] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[1:00:50] Speaker 2: You're welcome. Okay.
[1:00:51] Speaker 5: Bye.
[1:00:52] Speaker 2: Bye. Uh, okay. Let's go back.
[1:00:56] Speaker 5: You just started. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Because it's
[1:01:00] Speaker 5: going to get dark. Not as violent, but dark.
[1:01:02] Speaker 2: All right.
[1:01:03] Speaker 5: A couple of weeks.
[1:01:04] Speaker 2: Okay. So Detective Ida Lopez, this badass woman, she, a
[1:01:07] Speaker 2: couple of weeks after being assigned to the missing persons department,
[1:01:10] Speaker 2: the only person in missing department.
[1:01:12] Speaker 5: Which is crazy.
[1:01:13] Speaker 2: I know.
[1:01:14] Speaker 5: After having been in vice and a patrol officer.
[1:01:19] Speaker 2: For years she noticed that women with similar backgrounds had
[1:01:22] Speaker 2: been vanishing from albuquerque all women were all the women
[1:01:26] Speaker 2: were in their 20s and 30s with similar looks and
[1:01:29] Speaker 2: arrest records for sex work and drugs and they'd all
[1:01:33] Speaker 2: vanished without word to their families all of them after
[1:01:36] Speaker 2: a couple months of compiling a list there were five
[1:01:38] Speaker 2: missing women with similar similar profiles and they were all
[1:01:42] Speaker 2: known to hang out in a fucking like in albuquerque
[1:01:45] Speaker 2: which has as i said uh violent crime more than
[1:01:49] Speaker 2: double the national average this part of albuquerque that's the
[1:01:53] Speaker 2: most dangerous part called the war zone oh no so
[1:01:55] Speaker 2: they were all known to hang out there no i
[1:01:58] Speaker 2: know What hindered her research was that some had already
[1:02:02] Speaker 2: been missing for over a year due to their transient lifestyles.
[1:02:05] Speaker 5: So by the time their parents.
[1:02:07] Speaker 2: And families reported them missing, who were really the only
[1:02:09] Speaker 2: people who would report them missing, they had been used
[1:02:13] Speaker 2: to not seeing them for weeks and months and so
[1:02:16] Speaker 2: didn't know how long they had been gone for. Plus,
[1:02:19] Speaker 2: since they had no regular schedules, it was hard to
[1:02:21] Speaker 2: track down when and where they had last been seen.
[1:02:24] Speaker 5: And they also.
[1:02:25] Speaker 2: Supported their drug habit with sex work off of the street.
[1:02:29] Speaker 2: So they would come into contact regularly with strangers that
[1:02:33] Speaker 2: couldn't be like tracked down and questioned, you know, that
[1:02:36] Speaker 2: sort of thing. So when Ida, who's this wonderful woman
[1:02:39] Speaker 2: who doesn't, you know, isn't biased by the fact that
[1:02:43] Speaker 2: they are sex workers, she's like ready to look into this.
[1:02:47] Speaker 2: She hits the street to find out if there were
[1:02:49] Speaker 2: any rumors of the women's whereabouts. And when she does this,
[1:02:52] Speaker 2: she hears a rumor. that some of the girls had
[1:02:56] Speaker 2: been killed and were buried on the West Mesa.
[1:02:59] Speaker 5: Like, this is a rumor going around.
[1:03:01] Speaker 2: And the West Mesa is a vast desert just on
[1:03:03] Speaker 2: the outskirts of the city. So Detective Lopez didn't have
[1:03:06] Speaker 2: much more to go on, but just in case, she
[1:03:08] Speaker 2: did collect DNA and dental records from the woman's families
[1:03:12] Speaker 2: just in case, which, of course, scared the shit out
[1:03:14] Speaker 2: of the families.
[1:03:15] Speaker 5: Yeah, I bet. Let's see. But it wasn't really a
[1:03:20] Speaker 5: huge story.
[1:03:23] Speaker 3: As it never is because it's sex workers and people
[1:03:25] Speaker 3: that quote unquote have high risk lifestyles.
[1:03:28] Speaker 2: Exactly. And so nobody but Detective Lopez and the families
[1:03:32] Speaker 2: of the missing girls were really concerned about the disappearances.
[1:03:36] Speaker 2: of by 2007, what had become more than a dozen
[1:03:40] Speaker 2: women on her list. I think it's like 16. It's
[1:03:42] Speaker 2: hard to find an exact number, but it's around 16
[1:03:45] Speaker 2: women on her list of potentially related cases of missing
[1:03:48] Speaker 2: women in the city between 2001 and 2006. So she's
[1:03:52] Speaker 2: the only person who had noticed a pattern, put them together,
[1:03:55] Speaker 2: and is kind of doing whatever she can to investigate it.
[1:04:00] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:04:00] Speaker 5: So that was 2007.
[1:04:01] Speaker 1: All right.
[1:04:04] Speaker 2: Then in early February 2009, the case breaks wide fucking
[1:04:09] Speaker 2: open when a woman named Christine Ross, she's walking her
[1:04:13] Speaker 2: dog named Ruka. That's her dog's name. They're near their
[1:04:17] Speaker 2: new build house on the outskirts of Albuquerque in the
[1:04:21] Speaker 2: area known as West Mesa. So Christine likes to take
[1:04:24] Speaker 2: Ruka to an area that was once meant for new housing,
[1:04:27] Speaker 2: but had been abandoned during the 2008 economy crash, which
[1:04:31] Speaker 2: we all know about.
[1:04:32] Speaker 5: So all these fucking... Do we all know? No, we do.
[1:04:35] Speaker 5: So all these mortgages, all this fucking shit went bust.
[1:04:39] Speaker 2: All this new construction stopped being built because everyone was like,
[1:04:42] Speaker 2: the housing market's going to be huge. And then, no.
[1:04:45] Speaker 2: everything is wrong let's not blame the banks let's fucking
[1:04:48] Speaker 2: make poor regular normal people who couldn't afford the mortgages
[1:04:51] Speaker 2: they shouldn't have been given in the fucking first place
[1:04:54] Speaker 2: all a scam it's all a scam everything's a scam don't.
[1:04:57] Speaker 5: Watch adam mckay's movie what's it fucking called oh damn
[1:05:02] Speaker 5: it steven.
[1:05:04] Speaker 2: Look it up uh everything's a scam don't buy into
[1:05:06] Speaker 2: it the end okay the big short is that what
[1:05:10] Speaker 2: it's called will you double check me It's such a
[1:05:12] Speaker 2: good movie.
[1:05:12] Speaker 3: It's about that exact thing where 10 years ago, we
[1:05:16] Speaker 3: were living in the craziest world.
[1:05:18] Speaker 5: Isn't that crazy 10 years ago? Yeah. Well, more, right?
[1:05:21] Speaker 5: Because if it was 2007 or 8, did you say?
[1:05:23] Speaker 2: 2008 when the bust happened.
[1:05:24] Speaker 5: Oh, 10 years ago. Exactly.
[1:05:26] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the big short.
[1:05:27] Speaker 5: Yeah, watch the big short by Adam McKay. It's amazing.
[1:05:29] Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to watch it.
[1:05:31] Speaker 5: All right. Everything's a fucking scam.
[1:05:32] Speaker 2: It's all a lie.
[1:05:33] Speaker 5: The American dream, etc.
[1:05:34] Speaker 2: Anyways. Okay, so she liked to go over to this
[1:05:38] Speaker 2: area where the housing development had never started, had been
[1:05:42] Speaker 2: abandoned because of the crash. And it's now a desolate
[1:05:46] Speaker 2: swath of land. My words, obviously.
[1:05:50] Speaker 5: Your word, not a cut and paste word?
[1:05:55] Speaker 2: And she'd let Ruka off his leash to run around
[1:05:57] Speaker 2: in the desert, hard desert sand, right? So that day,
[1:06:01] Speaker 2: and it's like tumbleweedy, you know, we can imagine it.
[1:06:05] Speaker 5: Cow skull. Cow skull with a skull on its head?
[1:06:08] Speaker 4: Maybe.
[1:06:10] Speaker 5: Maybe a tiny bit of treasure sticking out of the sand. Well.
[1:06:14] Speaker 2: Oh, no.
[1:06:15] Speaker 5: Shit.
[1:06:16] Speaker 2: Sorry.
[1:06:16] Speaker 5: I'm going to stop talking. No.
[1:06:18] Speaker 2: Because you're not wrong. Oh, no. That day, Christine noticed
[1:06:23] Speaker 2: Ruka digging. And when she approached him, she realized he
[1:06:26] Speaker 2: was trying to uncover something out of the sand. No.
[1:06:30] Speaker 2: And it looked like a bone. But she said it
[1:06:33] Speaker 2: didn't look like.
[1:06:33] Speaker 5: An animal bone.
[1:06:34] Speaker 2: So concerned, she took a photo of it and sent
[1:06:37] Speaker 2: it to none other than her own sister, who was
[1:06:39] Speaker 2: a nurse. And her nurse sister was like, yeah, dude,
[1:06:41] Speaker 2: that's a femur. Call the fucking cops. Fuck.
[1:06:44] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:06:45] Speaker 2: So the detectives arrived, they confirmed that the bone was human,
[1:06:48] Speaker 2: and they began to process what would become the largest
[1:06:51] Speaker 2: crime scene in Albuquerque history.
[1:06:53] Speaker 5: Oh, shit.
[1:06:54] Speaker 2: This is partly because when construction had started for the
[1:06:57] Speaker 2: housing development, the land had been upturned and disturbed. So
[1:07:01] Speaker 2: they were preparing the land for the housing development.
[1:07:04] Speaker 4: Right.
[1:07:04] Speaker 5: So because of this, a lot of the bones.
[1:07:07] Speaker 2: Had been broken and scattered, which is one of the
[1:07:09] Speaker 2: reasons it became a large crime scene. But also because
[1:07:13] Speaker 2: by the time the detectives were finished processing the crime scene,
[1:07:16] Speaker 2: two and a half months later, 206 bones of 11
[1:07:21] Speaker 2: female bodies and one unborn child had been found buried
[1:07:25] Speaker 2: at the site.
[1:07:25] Speaker 1: 11?
[1:07:26] Speaker 5: Yeah. 12 to all together?
[1:07:29] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:07:30] Speaker 5: Fuck.
[1:07:31] Speaker 2: Okay, so as the digging is underway, and the media
[1:07:34] Speaker 2: is obviously fucking losing their shit over this, the bones
[1:07:37] Speaker 2: begin to be identified. And this is the order they're
[1:07:40] Speaker 2: identified in. The first to be identified is Victoria Chavez,
[1:07:43] Speaker 2: who was 26. She was the first woman to be identified.
[1:07:47] Speaker 2: Just said that. Victoria's mother had reported her missing in
[1:07:51] Speaker 2: March 2005 after she hadn't seen her.
[1:07:54] Speaker 5: In more than a year.
[1:07:55] Speaker 2: So this is the kind of, as I said, the unfortunate...
[1:08:01] Speaker 2: circumstances behind this is because they were a lot of them,
[1:08:05] Speaker 2: I think.
[1:08:06] Speaker 5: Drug addicts.
[1:08:07] Speaker 2: They weren't around their families a lot.
[1:08:10] Speaker 5: They were on the streets. A lot of them run
[1:08:12] Speaker 5: away from their families. Exactly. Yeah.
[1:08:14] Speaker 2: And so, I mean, if you've seen any fucking episode
[1:08:16] Speaker 2: of Intervention, you know what happens. You know, this could
[1:08:20] Speaker 2: have easily been me or you. These are people who
[1:08:22] Speaker 2: become addicted to drugs and They turn to sex work
[1:08:27] Speaker 2: to fund those drugs. They fall in love with a
[1:08:29] Speaker 2: bad crowd, bad boyfriend. These things happen.
[1:08:31] Speaker 3: They paint themselves into kind of like a bad corner, maybe.
[1:08:36] Speaker 3: But it's the thing, and I think I've said it
[1:08:38] Speaker 3: to you a million times, where it's that when you
[1:08:40] Speaker 3: are watching a true crime show and the family and
[1:08:45] Speaker 3: the different people say, we knew there was a problem
[1:08:47] Speaker 3: when we didn't hear from her the next day because
[1:08:49] Speaker 3: she would never do that. And every time it gives
[1:08:51] Speaker 3: me the chills because I'm like, I... don't call my
[1:08:54] Speaker 3: family so much that they're used to me not calling.
[1:08:57] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:08:57] Speaker 5: And that's how they know I'm a flake and I'm
[1:09:00] Speaker 5: that person.
[1:09:00] Speaker 4: Right.
[1:09:01] Speaker 5: So like that's there's lots of us that are like
[1:09:03] Speaker 5: that anyway. Totally.
[1:09:05] Speaker 2: And it's like you can't underestimate you can't we can't
[1:09:08] Speaker 2: understate how addicting drugs and alcohol is when you have
[1:09:12] Speaker 2: a life that you're trying to escape.
[1:09:15] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:09:15] Speaker 2: Even when you're not, it's just whatever.
[1:09:17] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:09:18] Speaker 2: So the second person to be identified is Michelle Valdez.
[1:09:21] Speaker 2: She's a 22 year old mother. Her father, Dan, had
[1:09:24] Speaker 2: reported her missing in 2005. Michelle had gotten pregnant at
[1:09:28] Speaker 2: 13 years old. Can you fucking believe that? And later
[1:09:31] Speaker 2: began taking drugs and was disappearing for months at a time.
[1:09:36] Speaker 2: After her bones were found, it was discovered that she
[1:09:39] Speaker 2: was pregnant with a four month old unborn baby or
[1:09:42] Speaker 2: four months pregnant. I know. Michelle's family had heard that
[1:09:47] Speaker 2: a friend of hers from the street, they didn't know her,
[1:09:50] Speaker 2: 32-year-old Cinnamon Elks had gone missing along with Michelle at
[1:09:54] Speaker 2: the same time. This is before they knew what had
[1:09:56] Speaker 2: happened to her. Um, and they had heard the rumor
[1:09:59] Speaker 2: that Michelle and cinnamon were buried on the Mesa. So
[1:10:02] Speaker 2: cinnamon's body was, uh, the third to be ID'd and
[1:10:06] Speaker 2: cinnamon's mother had reported her missing when she didn't, uh,
[1:10:09] Speaker 2: hear from her daughter on her birthday in August, 2004.
[1:10:12] Speaker 2: So next was Julie, uh, Nieto. She was 23 when
[1:10:17] Speaker 2: she disappeared. She had become addicted to drugs at 19.
[1:10:21] Speaker 2: And when her mother last saw her in August, 2004, uh,
[1:10:25] Speaker 2: She reported her missing because she stopped sending birthday and
[1:10:28] Speaker 2: Christmas presents to her young son.
[1:10:30] Speaker 5: Oh, no.
[1:10:31] Speaker 2: I know.
[1:10:32] Speaker 5: It's like the things that you realize.
[1:10:33] Speaker 2: Are off and why. And that's that's the last thing
[1:10:37] Speaker 2: you have. And, you know, it's so sad. So Monica
[1:10:41] Speaker 2: Candeliar had also also had a son and was reported
[1:10:45] Speaker 2: missing May 11th, 2003. Sheriff's detectives had also heard a
[1:10:49] Speaker 2: rumor that she had been killed and buried on the mesa.
[1:10:52] Speaker 2: So the cops knew about this rumor, but nothing came
[1:10:54] Speaker 2: of it. The mesa was fucking huge. And her case
[1:10:58] Speaker 2: had been given to the cold case unit. Okay, so
[1:11:02] Speaker 2: Veronica Romero's family reported her missing on February 15th, 2004.
[1:11:07] Speaker 5: She had four children. So at this point.
[1:11:10] Speaker 2: When Veronica is found... are identified at the news conference
[1:11:15] Speaker 2: for her and Monica, the fifth victim ID, Albuquerque police
[1:11:20] Speaker 2: chief Ray Schultz. So he'd been holding press conferences as
[1:11:24] Speaker 2: the woman had been ID. So each time someone's ID,
[1:11:27] Speaker 2: he holds a press conference. The press are fucking eating
[1:11:29] Speaker 2: it up. Um, He had been making it clear at
[1:11:34] Speaker 2: every press conference that the women had all and had
[1:11:38] Speaker 2: been saying that they had arrest records for drug and
[1:11:40] Speaker 2: sex works. And they had mentioned it early and often
[1:11:43] Speaker 2: that that was the case with these women. And this
[1:11:46] Speaker 2: press conference that he does for Veronica and Monica is
[1:11:49] Speaker 2: the first time in the first press conference where he
[1:11:53] Speaker 2: refers to the.
[1:11:54] Speaker 5: Women as victims. The first time.
[1:11:56] Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
[1:11:58] Speaker 5: After how many?
[1:11:59] Speaker 2: So they're the fifth and sixth to be reported. So
[1:12:01] Speaker 2: I think a couple of them had been announced together.
[1:12:05] Speaker 5: They were almost making it sound the first four, like
[1:12:09] Speaker 5: these were just the bodies.
[1:12:11] Speaker 2: We found the bodies of these sex workers, which is
[1:12:13] Speaker 2: obviously not the word they used. Right. Not the word
[1:12:16] Speaker 2: that is used in any of the articles and fucking
[1:12:19] Speaker 2: the shit I watched.
[1:12:21] Speaker 5: Obviously but you know right we're new to that.
[1:12:22] Speaker 3: Too it's it's a developing uh change but also just
[1:12:26] Speaker 3: that idea that it's the what he's not saying but
[1:12:29] Speaker 3: what's implied is and this is what happens when you
[1:12:33] Speaker 3: live that way so it's not they're not victims and
[1:12:36] Speaker 3: we're not it's not.
[1:12:38] Speaker 2: A concern but he's also saying to the community who
[1:12:41] Speaker 2: he knows are going to be flipping the fuck out
[1:12:42] Speaker 2: and saying to him what are you going to do
[1:12:44] Speaker 2: about this how are you going to solve this if
[1:12:45] Speaker 2: he doesn't if he if he doesn't imply that it's
[1:12:49] Speaker 2: partly their fault. So if they just think that some
[1:12:52] Speaker 2: fucking murderer is out there killing these young mothers and
[1:12:56] Speaker 2: these young women and not telling everyone that they lived
[1:12:59] Speaker 2: this lifestyle that's, quote, high risk. Right.
[1:13:02] Speaker 5: So calm down, don't worry, and don't get mad at us. Right.
[1:13:04] Speaker 2: So this is just the first time that they are
[1:13:07] Speaker 2: referred to as victims is so horrible.
[1:13:11] Speaker 5: It's injustice and it's a disservice to the first four victims. Right.
[1:13:17] Speaker 2: So Doreen Marquez, she so this woman's interesting. And it's
[1:13:21] Speaker 2: just another one of these stories that there's so much
[1:13:24] Speaker 2: more to all of these women's background than you can
[1:13:26] Speaker 2: ever imagine. And they're not just drug addicts and sex workers.
[1:13:30] Speaker 2: So Doreen had been a cheerleader in high school. She
[1:13:32] Speaker 2: was a devoted mother and she didn't start using drugs
[1:13:35] Speaker 2: till later in her 20s.
[1:13:37] Speaker 5: Her boyfriend had been put in jail. Her home life
[1:13:40] Speaker 5: went to shit.
[1:13:42] Speaker 2: Not long after, at around 27 years old, her family
[1:13:44] Speaker 2: reported her missing in December 2004. So then the eighth
[1:13:49] Speaker 2: victim to be ID'd, Solania Edwards. She is different than
[1:13:55] Speaker 2: the rest of the victims in a couple of ways. First,
[1:13:58] Speaker 2: she was the only victim identified. not known to have
[1:14:03] Speaker 2: friends and family in Albuquerque.
[1:14:04] Speaker 5: So she wasn't from Albuquerque. Her family wasn't there.
[1:14:07] Speaker 2: She kind of had come in randomly from Oklahoma. So
[1:14:11] Speaker 2: she was 15 years old where she had run away
[1:14:15] Speaker 2: from foster care. She had a clearly really sad circumstances
[1:14:18] Speaker 2: in her life. She didn't know her dad. Her mom
[1:14:20] Speaker 2: died when she was five and she was in foster care.
[1:14:22] Speaker 2: She ran away.
[1:14:23] Speaker 5: She's also the only African-American victim. Everyone else is white.
[1:14:27] Speaker 5: or mostly Hispanic.
[1:14:29] Speaker 2: Um, and it was determined that she was traveling on
[1:14:31] Speaker 2: the I-40 corridor, you know, the interstate 40.
[1:14:36] Speaker 5: As a sex worker. And I guess that's known as
[1:14:38] Speaker 5: a circuit girl.
[1:14:39] Speaker 2: I think it's kind of that truck stop to truck
[1:14:41] Speaker 2: stop thing of, you know, and I think you also
[1:14:44] Speaker 2: do it with like a lot of a couple other girls.
[1:14:46] Speaker 5: It's not just you alone. Oh, which is interesting. That's smart.
[1:14:50] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:14:50] Speaker 5: To not do it for sure.
[1:14:51] Speaker 2: Right. But Then is and they were hoping that because
[1:14:58] Speaker 2: she was different from the rest of the victims that
[1:15:00] Speaker 2: that might help lead to who was doing this. But
[1:15:03] Speaker 2: nothing ever came of it. So Virginia Ann Cloven was 23.
[1:15:08] Speaker 2: She was reported missing in October 2004. She had run
[1:15:11] Speaker 2: away from home when she was 17 after her brother
[1:15:13] Speaker 2: had been shot and killed. And she had been forced
[1:15:16] Speaker 2: to live on the street later when her live in
[1:15:18] Speaker 2: boyfriend had been hit by a car and was hospitalized.
[1:15:21] Speaker 2: I know this poor fucking baby. Her family had last
[1:15:24] Speaker 2: heard from her in June 2004 when she called to
[1:15:27] Speaker 2: say that she had a new boyfriend who had just
[1:15:29] Speaker 2: gotten out of prison and that she was going to
[1:15:30] Speaker 2: marry him. Number 10 is Evelyn Salazar, who's 23, also
[1:15:38] Speaker 2: a mother. Her family reported her missing on April 3rd, 2004.
[1:15:42] Speaker 2: And she had, okay, this is weird. She had been
[1:15:45] Speaker 2: last seen about a week earlier with her 15-year-old cousin,
[1:15:49] Speaker 2: Jamie Barella, who was the last victim to be ID'd. Oh,
[1:15:54] Speaker 2: so Jamie Barella was 15. She was a high school student.
[1:15:58] Speaker 2: And she, unlike the other West Mesa victims, she had
[1:16:02] Speaker 2: no known sex crime or drug arrests. And she wasn't
[1:16:06] Speaker 2: known to be in that world. But her cousin, whose
[1:16:08] Speaker 2: body was ID'd with her, Evelyn Salazar, was. And they
[1:16:12] Speaker 2: were last seen together heading from a family picnic to
[1:16:16] Speaker 2: another park. So, you know, you got to wonder what happened.
[1:16:20] Speaker 2: She's with her older cousin. They, someone pulls up who
[1:16:23] Speaker 2: maybe her cousin from the sex working trade knows he's
[1:16:26] Speaker 2: a friendly John. Maybe they go to hang out with him.
[1:16:28] Speaker 2: You know, like who fucking knows what happened.
[1:16:31] Speaker 5: That opens it up too. And she's like just a
[1:16:33] Speaker 5: high school girl. So it could be, right. Can you
[1:16:35] Speaker 5: drive her home? Also this, what drives me crazy too
[1:16:39] Speaker 5: is like, as you said, like we were both drug
[1:16:41] Speaker 5: addicts ourselves.
[1:16:43] Speaker 3: Um, I think if you polled most people, we'd find
[1:16:47] Speaker 3: out they were addicted to something.
[1:16:48] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:16:48] Speaker 3: So this idea that these sex workers and the way
[1:16:52] Speaker 3: drug addict sounds to the ear because we've been hearing
[1:16:54] Speaker 3: it for 40 years with this thing of, oh, the
[1:16:57] Speaker 3: drug addict.
[1:16:58] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:16:58] Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
[1:16:59] Speaker 2: Knowing the nuances of what brings you to drug addiction...
[1:17:03] Speaker 2: And how many people.
[1:17:04] Speaker 3: Are secret drug addicts that are like, well, you can
[1:17:06] Speaker 3: put on your pretty pink, you know, sweater set and
[1:17:10] Speaker 3: go to the mall and just slightly slur.
[1:17:11] Speaker 5: And be a fucking Adderall drug addict. Yeah. Or the
[1:17:15] Speaker 5: fucking Oxycontin thing that's taking over the nation.
[1:17:17] Speaker 3: Where it's just like we have to stop making it
[1:17:19] Speaker 3: sound like drug addicts are thrilled to be that way.
[1:17:23] Speaker 3: And they're like, yeah, fucking party on.
[1:17:25] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:17:25] Speaker 5: Because that's not the case.
[1:17:26] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[1:17:27] Speaker 3: It's not, once you start, that's the whole thing about
[1:17:30] Speaker 3: fucking drugs is a.
[1:17:31] Speaker 5: Lot of times you cannot stop. Yeah. That's addiction too.
[1:17:35] Speaker 2: I mean, love addiction, sex addiction, all these things where
[1:17:37] Speaker 2: you make terrible choices in your life and you.
[1:17:39] Speaker 5: Know, because you don't deserve to die. It's not you.
[1:17:42] Speaker 5: It's not you anymore. And you don't deserve to be
[1:17:45] Speaker 5: fucking killed or victimized.
[1:17:46] Speaker 2: No.
[1:17:47] Speaker 5: Um, I mean, yeah. All right. Now I'm talking to
[1:17:50] Speaker 5: you in this tone of voice that doesn't, it's not.
[1:17:52] Speaker 2: It's not at me. You're talking to the, you're talking
[1:17:54] Speaker 2: to everyone else listening. It's so frustrating.
[1:17:56] Speaker 5: They all know. I know.
[1:17:57] Speaker 4: All right.
[1:17:58] Speaker 2: You're telling Stephen.
[1:18:00] Speaker 5: I'm tired of you denying that. Stephen, just because you're
[1:18:04] Speaker 5: addicted to Hello Kitty cake. No. He's eaten the whole thing.
[1:18:08] Speaker 5: We've just watched him eat the entire thing during this episode.
[1:18:11] Speaker 5: It's impressive. I kind of respect that. Yeah. With his hands. Yeah.
[1:18:15] Speaker 5: It's pretty great.
[1:18:18] Speaker 2: Okay. So it took Albuquerque police nearly a year to
[1:18:23] Speaker 2: identify all of the victims. All of the women were
[1:18:26] Speaker 2: between the ages of 15 and 32, and most were Hispanic.
[1:18:29] Speaker 2: The women had gone missing between 2001 and 2005. $ 100, 000
[1:18:33] Speaker 2: reward for assistance to the arrest was assistance to arrest them,
[1:18:38] Speaker 2: whatever was offered. And detectives would only give the cause
[1:18:41] Speaker 2: of death as homicidal violence. I think wanting to keep
[1:18:44] Speaker 2: all that shit under wraps. So here are the suspects.
[1:18:48] Speaker 2: Police started looking. for men who lived in the area
[1:18:51] Speaker 2: with a history of violence against sex workers. Turns out
[1:18:54] Speaker 2: to be a really long fucking list.
[1:18:56] Speaker 5: Yeah, of course.
[1:18:58] Speaker 2: They also created a timeline using satellite images. So this
[1:19:03] Speaker 2: is fucking creepy and crazy. And you can see this
[1:19:06] Speaker 2: shit online and maybe we'll post it. In 2002, they
[1:19:09] Speaker 2: show like the Google Earth image where they show the
[1:19:12] Speaker 2: huge patch of, what did I call it? Desolate swath
[1:19:16] Speaker 2: of land.
[1:19:17] Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a swath. A swath of desert land. And whatever,
[1:19:22] Speaker 5: nothing unusual.
[1:19:24] Speaker 2: But then the satellite imagery taken in 2003 shows tire
[1:19:28] Speaker 2: marks leading to patches of disturbed soil in the area
[1:19:33] Speaker 2: where the remains were recovered. So essentially, you can track
[1:19:36] Speaker 2: someone driving up Fucking digging a ditch, putting a body
[1:19:40] Speaker 2: in and covering it back up. You see these like
[1:19:43] Speaker 2: squares of disturbed earth. And the way that that book
[1:19:46] Speaker 2: I love, No Stone Unturned, tells you how you can
[1:19:50] Speaker 2: find clandestine graves based on the soil and that sort
[1:19:53] Speaker 2: of thing. Then in 2000 and more tire marks and
[1:19:59] Speaker 2: bare spots showing up in 2005. So they have this
[1:20:02] Speaker 2: image of this timeline of this person. Going there and
[1:20:06] Speaker 2: coming back.
[1:20:08] Speaker 3: Can they see the person or they can just tell
[1:20:10] Speaker 3: by the topography of it?
[1:20:11] Speaker 2: It's the topography. It's, you know, snapshots taken. Unfortunately, there
[1:20:14] Speaker 2: was no cars when they took the photo, which sucks.
[1:20:17] Speaker 5: A tiny man.
[1:20:18] Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
[1:20:20] Speaker 5: In 2005, the marks stopped changing.
[1:20:22] Speaker 2: So they think that that's because the killer had to
[1:20:25] Speaker 2: stop using that area because new estates had begun to
[1:20:28] Speaker 2: be built in the area and people would have seen
[1:20:29] Speaker 2: him coming and going. But then everyone's always like, imagine
[1:20:33] Speaker 2: if the economy hadn't crashed, they would have just built
[1:20:37] Speaker 2: fucking houses over these bodies. And imagine how many places
[1:20:40] Speaker 2: that that actually happened. I mean.
[1:20:42] Speaker 5: No, let's not imagine that. Let's stay up all night.
[1:20:47] Speaker 4: All right.
[1:20:47] Speaker 2: So the two main suspects... Here they are. The first
[1:20:51] Speaker 2: main suspect is a man named Lorenzo Montoya. He lived
[1:20:54] Speaker 2: in a mobile home less than three miles, and it's
[1:20:56] Speaker 2: really like two miles, from the burial site up until
[1:20:59] Speaker 2: his death in 2006. Lorenzo was a short but really
[1:21:03] Speaker 2: powerfully built man. I saw a photo of him. Dead
[1:21:06] Speaker 2: fucking eyes. Like, the deadest eyes. He was in his
[1:21:10] Speaker 2: 30s when the killings occurred and had been arrested multiple
[1:21:12] Speaker 2: times for solicitation.
[1:21:13] Speaker 5: In 1999, he had picked up a 23-year-old sex worker.
[1:21:18] Speaker 2: Who was being watched by the vice unit. And I
[1:21:21] Speaker 2: don't even think she knew.
[1:21:22] Speaker 5: Oh. They were just like, let's track her. Yeah. When
[1:21:27] Speaker 5: they followed.
[1:21:30] Speaker 2: Lorenzo's truck with the sex worker in the car, they
[1:21:33] Speaker 2: followed them to an isolated spot. And police interrupted them
[1:21:37] Speaker 2: after Lorenzo had already sexually assaulted her. And while he
[1:21:40] Speaker 2: was fucking trying to strangle her. No.
[1:21:43] Speaker 5: So he's strangling her and the cops like fucking knock.
[1:21:45] Speaker 2: On the window. Jesus Christ. She told police that Lorenzo
[1:21:49] Speaker 2: looked like he was enjoying strangling her.
[1:21:52] Speaker 5: Oh, my God.
[1:21:52] Speaker 2: And she was convinced he was going to kill her
[1:21:54] Speaker 2: if the police hadn't intervened. Unfortunately, the case was dismissed
[1:21:58] Speaker 2: because the victim didn't want to testify against him.
[1:22:00] Speaker 5: Which is heartbreaking.
[1:22:04] Speaker 2: In 2006, there were reportedly tire tracks leading from his
[1:22:07] Speaker 2: trailer to the site of the dead of the bodies.
[1:22:11] Speaker 2: But I only saw that in a couple of places.
[1:22:13] Speaker 2: So I don't know if that's actually true.
[1:22:14] Speaker 5: Right.
[1:22:15] Speaker 4: All right.
[1:22:16] Speaker 2: December 2006, Lorenzo had solicited a 19-year-old woman named Sharika
[1:22:21] Speaker 2: Hill via a chat room to come to his mobile
[1:22:23] Speaker 2: home for a private dance. Once she was in his
[1:22:26] Speaker 2: mobile home, Lorenzo bound her hands and feet with duct tape,
[1:22:31] Speaker 2: then strangled her to death in what police called a, quote, brutal, orchestrated,
[1:22:36] Speaker 2: and very violent way. Ugh.
[1:22:38] Speaker 5: But Lorenzo didn't know.
[1:22:40] Speaker 2: That Sharika had brought her boyfriend, Frederick Williams, with her
[1:22:44] Speaker 2: for protection.
[1:22:45] Speaker 4: Ugh.
[1:22:45] Speaker 2: So after waiting outside for an hour in his car,
[1:22:49] Speaker 2: Frederick gets worried, goes to knock on the door of
[1:22:53] Speaker 2: the mobile home. And so this is kind of I've
[1:22:56] Speaker 2: read two different accounts of this. Either Lorenzo was dragging
[1:23:00] Speaker 2: Sharika's body to his car or Lorenzo just burst out
[1:23:04] Speaker 2: with a gun.
[1:23:04] Speaker 5: And Frederick, the boyfriend, fucking shot and killed Lorenzo. Holy fuck. Yeah.
[1:23:10] Speaker 2: So.
[1:23:12] Speaker 5: And here's another fucking great thing. Can I just say
[1:23:15] Speaker 5: one thing?
[1:23:15] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:23:15] Speaker 5: This is starting to sound insanely familiar. You know that.
[1:23:19] Speaker 5: I know you know this.
[1:23:20] Speaker 2: Right. But we didn't do it, did we? Don't ever
[1:23:22] Speaker 2: say that again. I don't care if it's true.
[1:23:24] Speaker 5: Maybe it was because we were in New Mexico and
[1:23:26] Speaker 5: so I read it. Maybe.
[1:23:28] Speaker 2: But it also, parts of this were covered in the
[1:23:31] Speaker 2: Long Island Serial Killer, that documentary.
[1:23:33] Speaker 5: That's what it is. That's what it is.
[1:23:35] Speaker 2: That's what it is.
[1:23:35] Speaker 5: Which is, what's it called again?
[1:23:36] Speaker 2: It was so great.
[1:23:38] Speaker 5: The Killing Fields? The Killing Fields. Yes. This is part
[1:23:40] Speaker 5: of that is in there.
[1:23:41] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:23:43] Speaker 5: No, I was thinking the same thing earlier.
[1:23:44] Speaker 2: I was like, did she? I don't care.
[1:23:45] Speaker 5: I don't care if she did it.
[1:23:47] Speaker 2: So, but here's another in the article from the time
[1:23:50] Speaker 2: I was like looking at reading an article, the incident.
[1:23:54] Speaker 2: It's described as Lorenzo having, quote, choked to death a
[1:23:57] Speaker 2: prostitute at his home, then was shot by the woman's pimp. Like,
[1:24:02] Speaker 2: that's how it's described in 2006 in the fucking article.
[1:24:05] Speaker 2: Not that this, not their names, not that she wasn't
[1:24:08] Speaker 2: a fucking prostitute. She was going there as a dancer,
[1:24:11] Speaker 2: 19 years old. Not that the dude she brought was
[1:24:14] Speaker 2: her boyfriend who she was just like, come, I know
[1:24:16] Speaker 2: this is creepy.
[1:24:17] Speaker 5: Come hang out with me. I just want to make
[1:24:19] Speaker 5: sure I'm safe.
[1:24:19] Speaker 2: It's instead choked to death a prostitute at his home.
[1:24:22] Speaker 2: was then shot by the woman's pimp. Like, that just
[1:24:26] Speaker 2: implies that it's almost like he's the victim. Doesn't it?
[1:24:28] Speaker 5: A hundred percent.
[1:24:29] Speaker 3: And also, it's not specific to... Like, even the police
[1:24:34] Speaker 3: were like, it was extremely violent.
[1:24:37] Speaker 2: Right. It's like.
[1:24:38] Speaker 3: And they don't, I don't know why choke to death
[1:24:40] Speaker 3: sounds so much lighter than like, if the cops are
[1:24:43] Speaker 3: saying extreme violence, why can't the, why can't the newspaper
[1:24:47] Speaker 3: say it?
[1:24:47] Speaker 2: And then in this, in all these interviews with the,
[1:24:50] Speaker 2: you know, investigators who now won't say if he, you know,
[1:24:53] Speaker 2: he's a major suspect or not, they all say like, well,
[1:24:56] Speaker 2: we would have loved to interview him and we would
[1:24:58] Speaker 2: have loved to have a chance to interrogate him, but
[1:25:00] Speaker 2: we can't. It's almost like they're, they're blaming this guy,
[1:25:03] Speaker 2: Frederick Williams, this poor fucking dude for, Who killed him.
[1:25:06] Speaker 5: And it's like.
[1:25:07] Speaker 2: It just sounds accusatory that if he hadn't done that,
[1:25:09] Speaker 2: maybe they wouldn't be able to solve it.
[1:25:11] Speaker 5: I mean.
[1:25:12] Speaker 2: Who pulled a gun... Who also had a gun. Like,
[1:25:14] Speaker 2: it's just.
[1:25:15] Speaker 5: Who just murdered his fucking girlfriend.
[1:25:18] Speaker 2: The attacker.
[1:25:18] Speaker 5: Like, his girlfriend's murderer.
[1:25:20] Speaker 4: Right.
[1:25:21] Speaker 5: Yeah. So, it's just... It's hard.
[1:25:23] Speaker 2: Yes.
[1:25:24] Speaker 5: After Lorenzo's killed, the murders stop.
[1:25:27] Speaker 4: Oh.
[1:25:27] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:25:28] Speaker 5: Well, I feel like we've solved it. I think so, too.
[1:25:30] Speaker 5: But here's another suspect. Okay. Okay, so.
[1:25:35] Speaker 2: Police thought looked good for the murders is a dude
[1:25:38] Speaker 2: named Joseph Blay, B-L-E-A. Seven days after finding the first
[1:25:42] Speaker 2: bone on the mesa, a woman calls detectives to say
[1:25:45] Speaker 2: that they should look at her ex-husband, Joseph Blay.
[1:25:48] Speaker 5: She said that.
[1:25:49] Speaker 2: She'd found jewelry in the house that didn't belong to
[1:25:52] Speaker 2: her and women's underwear. The women's underwear, like maybe he's
[1:25:55] Speaker 2: a perv and like collects and like saves them, whatever.
[1:25:58] Speaker 2: The jewelry is like no fucking one's going to be like, yeah,
[1:26:01] Speaker 2: take my jewelry.
[1:26:02] Speaker 5: True.
[1:26:02] Speaker 3: I mean, And maybe he collects that, too. There's all
[1:26:06] Speaker 3: ways to do it. But like the combination of the
[1:26:08] Speaker 3: two is not good.
[1:26:09] Speaker 5: Never. Listen.
[1:26:10] Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
[1:26:10] Speaker 5: If you find jewelry in your house, if.
[1:26:12] Speaker 3: You find jewelry, underwear and duct tape in one duffel.
[1:26:16] Speaker 2: Bag, get the fuck out of town.
[1:26:18] Speaker 4: Goodbye.
[1:26:18] Speaker 2: Well, here here's this. Oh, this dude is a fucking
[1:26:21] Speaker 2: piece of shit. Okay, in the 1980s, Blay had been dubbed, quote,
[1:26:25] Speaker 2: the mid-school rapist. Uh-oh. As he would often break into
[1:26:29] Speaker 2: the homes of 13 to 15-year-old girls who lived near
[1:26:31] Speaker 2: a middle school in Albuquerque and raped them in the 80s.
[1:26:35] Speaker 2: Between 1990 and 2009, Blay had 130 run-ins with police.
[1:26:38] Speaker 5: Fucking A.
[1:26:39] Speaker 2: 130. He frequented areas that many of the victims were
[1:26:41] Speaker 2: known to hang out. and was once found by police
[1:26:48] Speaker 2: in that area with rope and electrical tape in his car.
[1:26:52] Speaker 2: So there you go.
[1:26:53] Speaker 5: He's got all fucking three. He's got everything we need.
[1:26:56] Speaker 2: In one case, the DNA from a 1985 murder of
[1:26:59] Speaker 2: a girl found in Albuquerque was retested, but not until
[1:27:04] Speaker 2: 2010 after someone else had gone to prison for it
[1:27:06] Speaker 2: and found a match play. So the guy who was
[1:27:08] Speaker 2: in prison for it was exonerated.
[1:27:10] Speaker 5: Oh, good. In addition, okay, and this part is, and
[1:27:13] Speaker 5: I want to know your opinion on this.
[1:27:15] Speaker 2: So a tree tag from a nursery was found in
[1:27:18] Speaker 2: the area where the West Mesa's victims' bodies were buried.
[1:27:22] Speaker 2: And it was tracked down to a nursery in California
[1:27:24] Speaker 2: that Blay had once frequented. To me, that's like you're
[1:27:29] Speaker 2: in an area of there's trash everywhere. it's also or
[1:27:34] Speaker 2: there's a new building going on so plants were probably
[1:27:36] Speaker 2: ordered yeah and shipped in and if it's being shipped
[1:27:39] Speaker 2: in maybe it's from california that to me is just
[1:27:41] Speaker 2: like a fucking long shot unless it's like buried in
[1:27:44] Speaker 2: the dirt with the bodies.
[1:27:45] Speaker 3: Yeah but you know i think if you look at
[1:27:47] Speaker 3: it in the way of if you're a police person
[1:27:50] Speaker 3: that's processing that evidence and when you look it all
[1:27:53] Speaker 3: up and then you're like oh this is from this
[1:27:56] Speaker 3: is from the sun valley um a botanical whatever.
[1:28:00] Speaker 2: Oh, it's from, um, what did I want to call
[1:28:03] Speaker 2: my name? A little shop of horticulture or my mom,
[1:28:07] Speaker 2: what my mom owns, my mom, a horticulturist.
[1:28:12] Speaker 3: So once they, when they're looking into that and they're like,
[1:28:15] Speaker 3: they call up and then they're like, have you ever
[1:28:17] Speaker 3: heard of this guy's name?
[1:28:18] Speaker 2: And they say, yes.
[1:28:19] Speaker 5: I mean, boom. You're like, there's no way that's a coincidence.
[1:28:22] Speaker 5: That's very true.
[1:28:23] Speaker 2: It's more circumstantial evidence that will keep you on track
[1:28:25] Speaker 2: looking into this guy. Of course.
[1:28:27] Speaker 3: Also, the idea that anybody hangs out at a nursery,
[1:28:30] Speaker 3: the way you phrased it is like, it's his favorite bar.
[1:28:33] Speaker 4: Frequent. Yeah.
[1:28:34] Speaker 5: I frequent this nursery. I just like to touch Jasmine plants.
[1:28:38] Speaker 5: It's what I like. I do like to do that.
[1:28:40] Speaker 5: They're very silky.
[1:28:41] Speaker 4: They are.
[1:28:42] Speaker 2: They smell so good.
[1:28:43] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:28:44] Speaker 5: So he's now around 60 years old.
[1:28:46] Speaker 2: And he's serving 90 years in prison or he has
[1:28:48] Speaker 2: a 90 year prison sentence for four of the sexual
[1:28:51] Speaker 2: assaults related way back in the 1980s. Dude.
[1:28:55] Speaker 5: For the mid-school rape cases.
[1:28:57] Speaker 2: He's claimed that he's been with several of the West
[1:28:59] Speaker 2: Mesa victims in the past, like had like hired them
[1:29:03] Speaker 2: as sex workers.
[1:29:04] Speaker 5: He just brought that up?
[1:29:05] Speaker 2: I guess so.
[1:29:05] Speaker 5: Okay.
[1:29:05] Speaker 4: Who knows?
[1:29:07] Speaker 2: All right. Six women from Detective Lopez's list of similarly
[1:29:12] Speaker 2: missing women in Albuquerque are still unaccounted for.
[1:29:15] Speaker 5: Six.
[1:29:17] Speaker 2: The last to go missing was Vanessa Reed in June
[1:29:19] Speaker 2: of 2006, just six months before Lorenzo was shot and killed.
[1:29:25] Speaker 2: In 2014, Detective Lopez retired. She was like, I can't.
[1:29:30] Speaker 2: Apparently she did plenty. She did a lot.
[1:29:32] Speaker 5: She fucking nailed it.
[1:29:33] Speaker 2: And so there was only one detective left on the case.
[1:29:35] Speaker 2: But then in 2016, detective Lopez was like, all right, fine.
[1:29:39] Speaker 5: She comes back to work. Uh, I'm putting so many.
[1:29:42] Speaker 5: She throws down a dish towel. Fine.
[1:29:44] Speaker 2: She's like, there's a dateline about this case and she's
[1:29:47] Speaker 2: interviewed throughout it.
[1:29:47] Speaker 5: And she's just cries. She's lovely.
[1:29:50] Speaker 2: She's just such a clearly a caring woman who, uh,
[1:29:56] Speaker 2: It just wants nothing more than this case to be
[1:29:58] Speaker 2: solved for the families, for the victims. She cares not
[1:30:02] Speaker 2: about their history. She's just obviously a wonderful woman.
[1:30:06] Speaker 5: Can I just say, too, I think the more women
[1:30:08] Speaker 5: that get involved in police work and all this stuff
[1:30:10] Speaker 5: that we all talk about that I think people are
[1:30:12] Speaker 5: genuinely interested in, but the more they get involved... And
[1:30:16] Speaker 5: people like to argue, oh, political correctness. Oh, now we
[1:30:19] Speaker 5: have to say sex worker. Oh, now we can't say prostitute.
[1:30:23] Speaker 3: But if you think about it in that way, that
[1:30:25] Speaker 3: the more people get trained to think of these victims
[1:30:28] Speaker 3: as human fucking beings whose murders need to get solved.
[1:30:31] Speaker 3: Not only 100% for the fact that their lives mattered,
[1:30:35] Speaker 3: but also because there is a fucking lunatic killing them,
[1:30:39] Speaker 3: targeting them and killing them. Like, just the concept has
[1:30:43] Speaker 3: to change so that these creeps can get caught.
[1:30:46] Speaker 2: It doesn't come with the job that you might get killed.
[1:30:49] Speaker 2: There are murderers who take advantage of people who are...
[1:30:53] Speaker 2: You know, one would say the most fucking vulnerable. Yes.
[1:30:56] Speaker 2: And and and know that nobody cares as a society.
[1:31:00] Speaker 2: We're trained not to give a shit because of words
[1:31:02] Speaker 2: like prostitute and hooker and not saying sex worker and.
[1:31:05] Speaker 5: Not saying fucking victim.
[1:31:06] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:31:07] Speaker 5: Yeah. Oh, we know everything. Murderinos are on the fucking
[1:31:11] Speaker 5: up and up. They really are.
[1:31:12] Speaker 3: And things are absolutely changing quicker than we could know.
[1:31:15] Speaker 2: Definitely.
[1:31:16] Speaker 5: Yeah. So she comes back to work.
[1:31:18] Speaker 2: Detective Lopez comes back to work on a contract basis
[1:31:20] Speaker 2: to investigate the murders, partly because they realize how close
[1:31:25] Speaker 2: her relationships are with the victim's families, who are so
[1:31:29] Speaker 2: thankful that she's, you know, cared so much and kept
[1:31:32] Speaker 2: in touch with them and you know, she's like Aaron Brockovich.
[1:31:35] Speaker 5: She's Aaron fucking Brockovich.
[1:31:36] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:31:37] Speaker 5: They understand. She understands them.
[1:31:39] Speaker 2: Um, and just to end about the victims and how
[1:31:42] Speaker 2: they are deemed less important by society due to their
[1:31:45] Speaker 2: lifestyles in this, uh, 2020 episode to our friend, David Mankiewicz,
[1:31:51] Speaker 2: you old so-and-so. Ida Lopez says their soul is no
[1:31:55] Speaker 2: different than mine and they're not any less important to God.
[1:31:58] Speaker 5: Hell yes, Ida. Ida.
[1:32:01] Speaker 2: So that's the fucking West Mesa bone collector.
[1:32:05] Speaker 5: Unbelievable. Yeah. I also just thought of this, too. A
[1:32:09] Speaker 5: couple of people have tweeted us at us about this. Also,
[1:32:12] Speaker 5: Dave Anthony of.
[1:32:15] Speaker 2: The dollop.
[1:32:16] Speaker 5: Thank you. Oh, no. Sorry, Dave. Of the dollop also
[1:32:20] Speaker 5: tweeted at me about this. Yeah.
[1:32:22] Speaker 3: Trump recently, and this is going to go under the
[1:32:25] Speaker 3: fucking carpet rug because our democracy is imploding. And so
[1:32:32] Speaker 3: there's lots of other things that keep becoming more important.
[1:32:35] Speaker 3: But recently, Trump passed a law.
[1:32:38] Speaker 5: That is incredibly dangerous for sex workers saying that they
[1:32:42] Speaker 5: cannot advertise online. Oh, right. And the back page, they
[1:32:45] Speaker 5: can't back page it. They can't do, um, there's a
[1:32:48] Speaker 5: name for this.
[1:32:49] Speaker 3: Everybody should look it up, but it is, uh, we've,
[1:32:52] Speaker 3: we've been, I was contacted or like tweeted out by
[1:32:55] Speaker 3: a couple of people talking about how bringing this law
[1:32:59] Speaker 3: and needing to overturn this law is really important because
[1:33:02] Speaker 3: basically if sex workers can't ensure their own safety by
[1:33:07] Speaker 3: knowing that the people that they're doing business with, knowing
[1:33:10] Speaker 3: their names, getting credit card numbers, doing.
[1:33:12] Speaker 5: All that stuff. Even a phone number, tracing their phone number.
[1:33:14] Speaker 2: Exactly.
[1:33:14] Speaker 5: It forces them back onto the street. Right.
[1:33:18] Speaker 3: And it puts everybody in a fucking huge danger. And
[1:33:23] Speaker 3: Trump called it, it's the Allow States and Victims to
[1:33:27] Speaker 3: Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act, FOSTA, F-O-S-T-A. And it says
[1:33:34] Speaker 3: it aims to fight sex trafficking by reducing legal protections
[1:33:38] Speaker 3: for online platforms. And it got passed by an overwhelming majority.
[1:33:44] Speaker 3: But privacy and civil liberty advocates say it's a fatally
[1:33:48] Speaker 3: flawed bill that hurts small online communities. And sex workers
[1:33:52] Speaker 3: say it's going to make them less safe because they
[1:33:54] Speaker 3: have to go offline to do business.
[1:33:55] Speaker 2: Listen to the sex workers.
[1:33:56] Speaker 5: They'll tell you what is right for them.
[1:34:02] Speaker 3: The irony of that man passing a bill like this
[1:34:06] Speaker 3: and pretending that he gives a single shit about sex
[1:34:08] Speaker 3: trafficking and sex workers and women in this kind of community.
[1:34:13] Speaker 5: Just please.
[1:34:13] Speaker 2: And we're not talking about sex, about sex trafficking. That
[1:34:16] Speaker 2: is a whole different issue that we a hundred percent
[1:34:18] Speaker 2: know is a big problem. It needs to be addressed.
[1:34:22] Speaker 5: Everything we talk about has ripples.
[1:34:25] Speaker 3: And rings of bigger issues, but I didn't want Since
[1:34:28] Speaker 3: we're basically exactly talking about this, I don't want to
[1:34:31] Speaker 3: talk about this, first of all, because I hate when
[1:34:34] Speaker 3: we talk about things and I only know half about it.
[1:34:36] Speaker 3: But I think it's important to mention this now, where
[1:34:39] Speaker 3: if this is a concern of yours in any way,
[1:34:41] Speaker 3: you should absolutely look up F-O-S-T-A, the FOSTA bill, and
[1:34:46] Speaker 3: do what you can to fight against it because it's incredibly.
[1:34:48] Speaker 5: Dangerous for sex workers.
[1:34:49] Speaker 2: That's great. I'm glad you did that.
[1:34:50] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[1:34:52] Speaker 3: And thanks, Dave Anthony, because he, of course, he texted it. uh,
[1:34:56] Speaker 3: texted to me about it at like eight in the
[1:34:58] Speaker 3: morning where I was just like, Dave, I'm so glad
[1:35:00] Speaker 3: you're on the front lines for us.
[1:35:01] Speaker 2: He should go to, he did not go to bed
[1:35:03] Speaker 2: the night before.
[1:35:04] Speaker 5: I know it.
[1:35:04] Speaker 3: He's just, he's up writing a new doll up about,
[1:35:08] Speaker 3: you know, that's right.
[1:35:10] Speaker 5: Yes. Okay, we're back. Do you have updates for this case?
[1:35:18] Speaker 4: I do, actually.
[1:35:19] Speaker 2: On June 27, 2020, a one-acre park named Women's Memorial
[1:35:24] Speaker 2: Park was opened by state officials on the site where
[1:35:26] Speaker 2: the bodies were found as a way to honor the
[1:35:28] Speaker 2: women and their families. There is still a $ 100, 000 reward
[1:35:32] Speaker 2: for anyone who has tips that could lead to an
[1:35:34] Speaker 2: arrest and conviction for this case.
[1:35:36] Speaker 5: I just.
[1:35:37] Speaker 4: This.
[1:35:39] Speaker 2: Whatever monster is out there who did these things just
[1:35:41] Speaker 2: needs to be caught.
[1:35:42] Speaker 4: Yeah. It's so scary.
[1:35:43] Speaker 1: So.
[1:35:45] Speaker 5: Now it's time to get into the fucking hoorays.
[1:35:53] Speaker 2: That was great.
[1:35:54] Speaker 5: And that's the cue. Elvis' meow is the cue. To
[1:35:57] Speaker 5: go into fucking hooray.
[1:35:58] Speaker 2: To fucking hooray.
[1:35:59] Speaker 5: That was Elvis' small hooray. It's like a doorbell now.
[1:36:03] Speaker 5: Ding dong.
[1:36:04] Speaker 2: Oh.
[1:36:04] Speaker 5: Who's there? Oh, it's time, Elvis. Elvis is like, shut up. Oh,
[1:36:07] Speaker 5: the hooray cat's here.
[1:36:09] Speaker 2: The hooray cat's here. So we both have a lighthearted,
[1:36:13] Speaker 2: dumb one. And then I have a sweet one.
[1:36:15] Speaker 5: OK, cool. That actually has to do with Elvis.
[1:36:17] Speaker 4: OK.
[1:36:17] Speaker 5: So you want to go first? Sure.
[1:36:19] Speaker 3: My hooray is for this week. One is it was
[1:36:26] Speaker 3: a very difficult week in lots of different ways. And
[1:36:29] Speaker 3: I was spending a lot of time in the morning
[1:36:32] Speaker 3: between like 7 a.m.
[1:36:33] Speaker 5: And 9 a.m. rattled with anxiety, stress, and rage. We've
[1:36:39] Speaker 5: got a lot going on right now.
[1:36:41] Speaker 3: So one of the mornings— Um, I'd had dinner with
[1:36:45] Speaker 3: Lizzie Cooperman who was talking about the, um, meditation classes
[1:36:50] Speaker 3: that she's taking and how much she loves it.
[1:36:52] Speaker 5: She's so spiritual. She's very spiritually, she's universally tapped in. Okay.
[1:36:57] Speaker 4: That's enough.
[1:36:58] Speaker 3: And I was, so she put it in my head.
[1:37:00] Speaker 3: I'd taken classes about it and stuff, but then, so
[1:37:03] Speaker 3: I was watching, um, This show.
[1:37:05] Speaker 5: Ancient Aliens, which is one of my faves.
[1:37:08] Speaker 3: And it was talking about how meditation allows your subconscious
[1:37:12] Speaker 3: brain to access the Akashic record, which is everything that's
[1:37:17] Speaker 3: ever happened in humanity ever. And when you can tap
[1:37:20] Speaker 3: into that, you can tap into creativity. And that's how
[1:37:23] Speaker 3: They were talking about spontaneous ideas, how like Alexander Graham
[1:37:26] Speaker 3: Bell submitted the patent for the telephone and the same
[1:37:29] Speaker 3: day someone else submitted the exact same patent. And there's
[1:37:32] Speaker 3: all the, they have all the, you have to watch
[1:37:34] Speaker 3: this episode of Ancient Aliens.
[1:37:35] Speaker 4: Dude, what's it called?
[1:37:35] Speaker 5: I want to watch it so bad.
[1:37:37] Speaker 3: It might be called spontaneous inventions or something like that.
[1:37:41] Speaker 3: But it basically, the theory, their theory, ancient, ancient astronaut
[1:37:46] Speaker 3: theorists suggest that that when you rest your brain and
[1:37:51] Speaker 3: let your subconscious, and they showed a guy in an
[1:37:54] Speaker 3: MRI doing this, when your brain rests and you go blank.
[1:37:58] Speaker 3: your unconscious becomes alive and starts actually, like, doing stuff.
[1:38:03] Speaker 2: And because we're fucking AI, we have all the history
[1:38:07] Speaker 2: already downloaded. We just don't ever tap into it. Like,
[1:38:09] Speaker 2: it's already all there.
[1:38:10] Speaker 5: Yes.
[1:38:11] Speaker 2: I've got the biggest fucking conspiracy theory boner right now.
[1:38:14] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:38:14] Speaker 3: Also, they showed people who got head injuries, and then
[1:38:17] Speaker 3: when they came out of the hospital, like, one guy
[1:38:19] Speaker 3: became a concert pianist, and he'd never taken a lesson. Um,
[1:38:22] Speaker 3: there was a guy who could, who could immediately draw
[1:38:25] Speaker 3: these insane, he saw mathematical, um, equations everywhere and could
[1:38:30] Speaker 3: see whatever, what like the diameter was of everything.
[1:38:33] Speaker 5: It's so crazy. So anyway, because of all those things,
[1:38:36] Speaker 5: I started.
[1:38:37] Speaker 3: Meditating and I've only done it for two days, but
[1:38:40] Speaker 3: it's really great. And I've been using an app called
[1:38:42] Speaker 3: the insight timer.
[1:38:44] Speaker 5: I'm downloading it.
[1:38:45] Speaker 3: It I've done two 10-minute meditations. I normally go super
[1:38:49] Speaker 3: crazy about minute four, and I have to get up
[1:38:52] Speaker 3: and walk away.
[1:38:53] Speaker 5: But if you start with guided meditation... Yeah, I.
[1:38:56] Speaker 2: Have to do guided.
[1:38:56] Speaker 5: I'm just bananas.
[1:38:57] Speaker 3: Then you're listening, and that's the focus. You don't have
[1:39:00] Speaker 3: to sit there going, stop talking to yourself and all
[1:39:02] Speaker 3: that shit that makes you crazy.
[1:39:04] Speaker 5: And you can kind of dip into it. And they
[1:39:06] Speaker 5: have guided meditations about everything, like a million things. Guys
[1:39:11] Speaker 5: with British accents. Anyway, so the inside timer is awesome.
[1:39:14] Speaker 5: Paul Onions does one. That's what I did this morning.
[1:39:17] Speaker 5: That's awesome. It was really good.
[1:39:18] Speaker 3: But the other thing that's the second piece to that
[1:39:22] Speaker 3: in my relaxation, I found this show and I'd already
[1:39:25] Speaker 3: heard of it called, it's a British series from I
[1:39:28] Speaker 3: think the late 90s or maybe the 2000s called The
[1:39:31] Speaker 3: Royal Family, R-O-Y Family.
[1:39:34] Speaker 5: A-L-E.
[1:39:36] Speaker 3: And it is a sitcom from England just about this
[1:39:41] Speaker 3: plain old family.
[1:39:42] Speaker 5: I can't remember where they live. They don't really talk
[1:39:44] Speaker 5: about it that much. But it's like a half hour play.
[1:39:47] Speaker 3: And it is really basic and it's very quiet and
[1:39:51] Speaker 3: it's very real. And it's like it's a big old
[1:39:55] Speaker 3: high backed couch. And then the dad's chair pulled up
[1:39:58] Speaker 3: real close.
[1:39:58] Speaker 5: To the TV. So the entire thing takes place while
[1:40:01] Speaker 5: the family watches TV together.
[1:40:03] Speaker 2: Shut up.
[1:40:03] Speaker 5: And it is so funny.
[1:40:05] Speaker 3: And the reason I brought up the tea lunch thing
[1:40:07] Speaker 3: is because the mom, whoever comes into the house, sits
[1:40:09] Speaker 3: down on the couch and starts watching TV with them.
[1:40:11] Speaker 5: And then she'll go, did you have your tea? And
[1:40:15] Speaker 5: then they'll go, yeah. And then she'll go, what'd you have?
[1:40:18] Speaker 5: And then they'll describe what they had. So, like, people
[1:40:20] Speaker 5: are having, like... Corned beef hash and all these things
[1:40:24] Speaker 5: that you maybe go, what's fucking tea? It must be lunch.
[1:40:27] Speaker 2: I think it's, okay. I think it's like the brunch.
[1:40:29] Speaker 2: I think it's brunch, but between dinner, lunch and dinner.
[1:40:32] Speaker 5: It's second lunch?
[1:40:33] Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
[1:40:33] Speaker 5: Maybe. Let's find out. Okay, but we will find out. Oh,
[1:40:36] Speaker 5: we will.
[1:40:36] Speaker 3: But if you, here's why I love the show. As
[1:40:39] Speaker 3: opposed to murder, we know we need to take a
[1:40:41] Speaker 3: break sometimes. Also sometimes- Oh, wait, I'm wrong.
[1:40:44] Speaker 5: I'm sorry.
[1:40:45] Speaker 2: They have tea and then they go, what'd you have
[1:40:47] Speaker 2: for pudding?
[1:40:47] Speaker 5: Okay. That's right. Pudding's dessert.
[1:40:49] Speaker 3: Yes.
[1:40:50] Speaker 2: That's right.
[1:40:50] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:40:51] Speaker 5: They talk about that on here. Okay.
[1:40:52] Speaker 3: Because she said, who wants pudding one time? And then
[1:40:54] Speaker 3: she served up fruit cocktail.
[1:40:57] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:40:57] Speaker 5: And I was like, what is happening?
[1:40:59] Speaker 3: But anyway, if you want to relax, if you're like a,
[1:41:03] Speaker 3: what do.
[1:41:05] Speaker 2: You call it?
[1:41:05] Speaker 5: A Brito-phile. Oh, yeah. An Anglo-phile.
[1:41:09] Speaker 2: Right.
[1:41:11] Speaker 3: And it's like you went and sat in a living
[1:41:13] Speaker 3: room with this family and they're hilarious and they're super mean.
[1:41:16] Speaker 3: The youngest son, they keep making him get up and
[1:41:18] Speaker 3: make tea or like they're like, Antony, go get the thing.
[1:41:21] Speaker 5: And he's always mad. He's like a teenager.
[1:41:22] Speaker 3: It's it's just a very realistic family dynamic.
[1:41:26] Speaker 5: And it's very quiet. Everyone talks very quietly. So it's
[1:41:30] Speaker 5: really relaxing. It's called The Royal Family and it's on Netflix.
[1:41:34] Speaker 5: I love it. I'm going to do both those things. Okay.
[1:41:37] Speaker 3: Give it a try and then we'll meet back here
[1:41:39] Speaker 3: and talk about it. Let's just change this podcast. So
[1:41:41] Speaker 3: what'd you have for tea?
[1:41:42] Speaker 2: Oh my God.
[1:41:44] Speaker 5: Corned beef. Every day.
[1:41:46] Speaker 3: Also, just the way she asked the question, it's that
[1:41:48] Speaker 3: great actress. You've seen this British actress in a million things.
[1:41:51] Speaker 5: She's so fucking good. in its part, but it is
[1:41:54] Speaker 5: that thing where it's like, that's what my family's like.
[1:41:56] Speaker 2: I think they like to know too. I think that
[1:41:58] Speaker 2: they always ask you what you.
[1:41:59] Speaker 5: Had for tea.
[1:42:00] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[1:42:00] Speaker 3: They want to know what, what it's like saying, what
[1:42:02] Speaker 3: have you been doing? But being real specific and then
[1:42:04] Speaker 3: being like, oh, I had this, that pork chop sounds good.
[1:42:08] Speaker 5: Like it So funny and real. I love it. Tell
[1:42:10] Speaker 5: us what you had for tea, everyone. Tell us what
[1:42:13] Speaker 5: you had for tea. When you find out what it is.
[1:42:14] Speaker 2: My boring one, my ding dong one, you know, I
[1:42:17] Speaker 2: fucking hate movies and I'm just like the biggest critic
[1:42:20] Speaker 2: and I hate everything.
[1:42:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[1:42:21] Speaker 2: I had found so much joy. Vince and I watched
[1:42:23] Speaker 2: it together and he also doesn't. Not as bad as me,
[1:42:26] Speaker 2: but isn't a movie guy.
[1:42:28] Speaker 5: Jumanji was so enjoyable. And you told me, we talked
[1:42:32] Speaker 5: about it.
[1:42:32] Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, I'll watch it. Fine.
[1:42:35] Speaker 5: What a little joy of a movie. I laughed so
[1:42:38] Speaker 5: hard I cried. It was so fun. The Rock is
[1:42:41] Speaker 5: just an angel, baby.
[1:42:42] Speaker 2: The lovely girl. girl in it it was so i
[1:42:45] Speaker 2: want her fucking hair she was like such.
[1:42:46] Speaker 3: A badass karen her name is karen something and she
[1:42:49] Speaker 3: was a star on like one of the more recent.
[1:42:51] Speaker 2: Doctor who series that's right and red hair karen all
[1:42:54] Speaker 2: of them everyone was just the best i loved.
[1:42:56] Speaker 5: It jack black playing a teenage girl.
[1:42:58] Speaker 2: That's right oh i think we you mentioned it last
[1:43:01] Speaker 2: episode did i and i was like did you text
[1:43:04] Speaker 2: him and tell him how great he was and you
[1:43:05] Speaker 2: were like no we're not that kind of friend he's
[1:43:07] Speaker 2: a wife But you agree.
[1:43:09] Speaker 5: He was great. It's so good.
[1:43:12] Speaker 2: It's really enjoyable. As someone who hates everything, it made
[1:43:16] Speaker 2: me really happy. It makes me like it more when
[1:43:18] Speaker 2: I don't hate it because I fucking hate everything.
[1:43:20] Speaker 5: The Shape of Water. What are you talking about?
[1:43:23] Speaker 2: That was the most atrocious, weird fucking bestiality movie I've
[1:43:27] Speaker 2: ever seen.
[1:43:28] Speaker 3: My thing was, and my friend, the most hilarious comedian,
[1:43:32] Speaker 3: Naomi Ekpergen, she goes.
[1:43:36] Speaker 3: So she just falls in love with him automatically. What's
[1:43:39] Speaker 3: the backstory? Is he from a river? And she wasn't
[1:43:44] Speaker 3: trying to be funny. She was so pissed off. He
[1:43:46] Speaker 3: also didn't hit on her.
[1:43:47] Speaker 2: He moved her tank top sleeve, which he doesn't understand
[1:43:51] Speaker 2: what that is. And then she fucking takes advantage of him.
[1:43:54] Speaker 5: I thought it was a little bit, I just was
[1:43:56] Speaker 5: really upset.
[1:43:57] Speaker 3: It's like so many rom-coms where it's like, you don't
[1:43:59] Speaker 3: know why they like each other.
[1:44:01] Speaker 5: So why is this the great love of all time?
[1:44:03] Speaker 5: So why do I care? Oh, I did like Lady Bird. Actually,
[1:44:06] Speaker 5: I should go ahead.
[1:44:07] Speaker 2: And say that too.
[1:44:08] Speaker 5: I thought that was a really, really good movie.
[1:44:09] Speaker 2: So good.
[1:44:10] Speaker 5: The sweet thing, I'm going to leave y'all on a sad,
[1:44:13] Speaker 5: happy note.
[1:44:13] Speaker 4: Okay.
[1:44:14] Speaker 2: There's someone in the My Favorite Murder Facebook, which is now,
[1:44:20] Speaker 2: you can now go to the, we have a fan
[1:44:22] Speaker 2: cult on myfavoritemurder.com. You can join our fan cult. There's
[1:44:25] Speaker 2: forums and shit you can talk about stuff. Her name's Amy.
[1:44:30] Speaker 2: I don't think she wants me to say her last name,
[1:44:32] Speaker 2: so I don't want to. Her name's Amy and she
[1:44:34] Speaker 2: wrote this last week. I drive my daughter three and
[1:44:38] Speaker 2: a half to four hours twice a week to speech therapy.
[1:44:41] Speaker 5: Most of my commute is accompanied by Georgia and Karen.
[1:44:44] Speaker 4: Oh, no.
[1:44:45] Speaker 2: As the Minnesota ended today, my three-year-old yelled from the.
[1:44:48] Speaker 5: Backseat, Elvis, I love him. He's my Elvis.
[1:44:53] Speaker 2: Elvis.
[1:44:54] Speaker 5: Yeah.
[1:44:55] Speaker 2: Okay, good, because you were looking at me. Definitely a
[1:44:58] Speaker 2: heartfelt moment. We thought talking might never come with her disorder,
[1:45:02] Speaker 2: but even sweeter that she loves Elvis. So she doesn't
[1:45:06] Speaker 2: speak and she yelled that.
[1:45:08] Speaker 5: Okay, sorry.
[1:45:09] Speaker 3: I was confused because I pictured that the speech therapy
[1:45:15] Speaker 3: child would be older. Like for some reason I cast
[1:45:17] Speaker 3: her as a 10-year-old.
[1:45:20] Speaker 5: So when you said the three-year-old, then I was like, so...
[1:45:24] Speaker 5: It's an unspeaking.
[1:45:25] Speaker 2: We thought talking might never come with her disorder, but
[1:45:28] Speaker 2: even sweeter that she loves Elvis and then the emoji
[1:45:30] Speaker 2: cat with hearts in its eyes.
[1:45:32] Speaker 5: And she yelled about it. Do it.
[1:45:35] Speaker 2: Do you know how much I love this cat?
[1:45:38] Speaker 5: Yes, I know actually exactly how much you love that cat.
[1:45:42] Speaker 2: So knowing that means like so much. Like that it's
[1:45:45] Speaker 2: Elvis makes me so happy.
[1:45:46] Speaker 5: Well, now you know there's a three-year-old that loves your
[1:45:48] Speaker 5: cat as much as you do. He loves you too, sweetie.
[1:45:53] Speaker 5: He is a good boy. He's such a good boy.
[1:45:55] Speaker 5: He knows it. He's like, I'm having a certain feeling.
[1:45:59] Speaker 5: I can tell something's about to happen. He fucking knows
[1:46:02] Speaker 5: when we've blathered on too long. Yeah, he's like, we're
[1:46:04] Speaker 5: now at the seven-hour mark.
[1:46:06] Speaker 2: Cut it, ladies.
[1:46:11] Speaker 4: Okay, we're back.
[1:46:13] Speaker 5: That's quite a set of hoorays. Just all over the map.
[1:46:16] Speaker 4: Did we drink that black coffee that day? I bet
[1:46:18] Speaker 4: we did. I bet I had a little sip, too.
[1:46:20] Speaker 5: You had a little sippy sip? Yeah.
[1:46:22] Speaker 3: Okay, so this episode was originally entitled Realities Cancelled. If
[1:46:26] Speaker 3: we were naming it today, maybe we would call it.
[1:46:31] Speaker 4: Trick Ankles.
[1:46:33] Speaker 5: Still true. I can only wear flats.
[1:46:35] Speaker 4: I love that.
[1:46:36] Speaker 5: Well, Georgia did one of her classic puns.
[1:46:40] Speaker 3: Instead of saying paper mache, you said paper moth-shay because
[1:46:43] Speaker 3: it was one of the threats.
[1:46:44] Speaker 4: Let's see, the pun cult, of course.
[1:46:47] Speaker 5: Also Passover egg mistakes. That's a good one. Well, I mean,
[1:46:52] Speaker 5: what a great episode. Yeah. This is, that's this week's
[1:46:55] Speaker 5: episode of Rewind. It's that easy.
[1:46:56] Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to this, the episode of the episode.
[1:47:00] Speaker 5: Yes.
[1:47:00] Speaker 4: You guys.
[1:47:01] Speaker 5: And the commentary on the episode of the episode.
[1:47:03] Speaker 4: That's right. We'll say goodbye from 2018.
[1:47:09] Speaker 5: Well, thanks you guys for listening this week. Thank you
[1:47:11] Speaker 5: for listening. If you listen, you guys are the best. Look.
[1:47:16] Speaker 2: Look and listen.
[1:47:17] Speaker 5: We love you. Thank you. So stay sexy. And don't
[1:47:19] Speaker 5: get murdered.
[1:47:20] Speaker 4: Bye.
[1:47:20] Speaker 5: Bye.
[1:47:21] Speaker 4: Elvis, you want a cookie?

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