# Former President Mbeki testifies at TRC

An episode of [The Midday Report with Mandy Wiener](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1074292047), 19 Oct 2026, 3:18.

Audio: https://traffic.omny.fm/d/clips/5dcefa8e-00a9-4595-8ce1-a4ab0080f142/fe8d1a9a-a053-424d-9f40-a57500d5394b/7a8488b8-aec2-4315-aa1a-b4e800b3a706/audio.mp3?utm_source=Podcast&in_playlist=18146681-7843-46cf-9a9c-a57500d59fe7

Mandy Wiener speaks to EWN Reporter, Dimakatso Leshoro about former President Thabo Mbeki testifying at TRC. The Midday Report with Mandy Wiener is 702 and CapeTalk’s flagship news show, your hour of essential news radio. The show is podcasted every weekday, allowing you to catch up with a 60-minute weekday wrap of the day's main news. It's packed with fast-paced interviews with the day’s newsmakers, as well as those who can make sense of the news and explain what's happening in your world. All the interviews are podcasted for you to catch up and listen to. Thank you for listening to this podcast of The Midday Report Listen live on weekdays between 12:00 and 13:00 (SA Time) to The Midday Report broadcast on 702 https://buff.ly/gk3y0Kj and on CapeTalk https://buff.ly/NnFM3Nk For more from The Midday Report go to https://buff.ly/BTGmL9H and find all the catch-up podcasts here https://buff.ly/LcbDdFI Subscribe to the 702 and CapeTalk daily and weekly newsletters https://buff.ly/v5mfetc Follow us on social media: 702 on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TalkRadio702 702 on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@talkradio702 702 on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkradio702/ 702 on X: https://x.com/Radio702 702 on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@radio702 CapeTalk on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CapeTalk CapeTalk on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@capetalk CapeTalk on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ CapeTalk on X: https://x.com/CapeTalk CapeTalk on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CapeTalk567 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

## Transcript

[0:00] Speaker 1: Lots of voice notes coming in and messages about the
[0:03] Speaker 1: TRC Commission, the Kampepe Commission, the former president, Thabo Mbeki,
[0:07] Speaker 1: on the stand there, busy giving evidence, facing questioning. Our reporter,
[0:11] Speaker 1: Demokatsuo Leshoro, EWN reporter, is also there. Demokatsuo, give us
[0:16] Speaker 1: a run-through. What has the former president been saying?
[0:19] Speaker 2: Hi, Mandy. So basically what we've heard from former president
[0:24] Speaker 2: Thabo Mbeki is him detailing how detailing how, you know,
[0:29] Speaker 2: the decisions perhaps to not prosecute came about. What he's done,
[0:35] Speaker 2: in fact, he said denied any knowledge or involvement of
[0:39] Speaker 2: political interference from the ANC leadership. He basically said that
[0:43] Speaker 2: there was no agreement denied to any secret deal with
[0:47] Speaker 2: the party generals regarding these cases. As you know, we've
[0:51] Speaker 2: heard testimony from Anton Ackerman, who told the commission previously
[0:57] Speaker 2: that he was told by Jan Wagner, who was representing
[1:01] Speaker 2: the generals at the time, that he was wasting his
[1:03] Speaker 2: time pursuing these cases because there was a secret deal
[1:06] Speaker 2: that was reached by FWC-CLEC and generals of Apartheid generals
[1:12] Speaker 2: to basically shield each other from prosecution because, as you know,
[1:16] Speaker 2: that 37 members of the ANC went to the Jersey
[1:20] Speaker 2: Commission to apply for amnesty. They were granted. However, that
[1:24] Speaker 2: matter was challenged in court. where they were said to
[1:27] Speaker 2: have not met the requirements of the TRC Act, where
[1:30] Speaker 2: they were supposed to apply for amnesty individually and state
[1:34] Speaker 2: for which offenses. So he's basically said that or shifted even,
[1:39] Speaker 2: you know, responsibility of these cases to the NPA, saying
[1:43] Speaker 2: that as the president, he did not have any authority whatsoever.
[1:47] Speaker 2: to interfere with the NPA. It was the NPA's sole
[1:50] Speaker 2: responsibility to see to it that these cases were prosecuted.
[1:56] Speaker 2: It also details how delicate the situation was at the
[2:00] Speaker 2: advent of democracy when these negotiations were happening. Mandy, I'm
[2:04] Speaker 2: sure you would recall that they had to tread carefully
[2:09] Speaker 2: and whatever agreement that they had reached, they had to
[2:12] Speaker 2: abide by to make sure that there was peace during
[2:16] Speaker 2: the transition. So, you know, he's been taken to what
[2:19] Speaker 2: we asked, leading his evidence in chief by his lawyers
[2:24] Speaker 2: and saying that the amendments that were done to the legislation,
[2:28] Speaker 2: which is part of what Anton Ackerman referred to, that
[2:32] Speaker 2: that legislation and his speech in 2003 in Parliament were
[2:37] Speaker 2: the keys that led to the shielding of the mechanism,
[2:44] Speaker 2: if you will, right, that led to the shielding of
[2:47] Speaker 2: the apartheid era generals. So he's basically denied that his
[2:50] Speaker 2: speech in parliament in any way, you know, was advocating
[2:55] Speaker 2: for the apartheid era, you know, perpetrators to not be prosecuted,
[3:01] Speaker 2: adding that even the policy at the time, it had
[3:05] Speaker 2: nothing to do with wanting to shield anybody.
[3:09] Speaker 1: Demokato, thank you. Demokato Leshoro, EWN reporter, summarising there the
[3:13] Speaker 1: evidence of former President Thabo Mbeki going through that with
[3:17] Speaker 1: his lawyers.

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