# 435: Conversations With Serial Killers w/ Jeffrey Smalldon

An episode of [Most Notorious! A True Crime History Podcast](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1055044256), 24 Apr 2026, 1 h 22 min.

Audio: https://tracking.swap.fm/track/YfZO4tERxneauNcW9Fgn/mgln.ai/e/211/traffic.megaphone.fm/ARML8350707548.mp3?updated=1776992940

My guest this week is forensic psychologist Dr. Jeffrey Smalldon. He shares stories from decades of correspondence, prison visits and interviews with some of America’s most notorious killers, including Charles Manson, Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy. His memoir is called "That Beast Was Not Me: One Forensic Psychologist, Five Decades of Conversations with Killers". The author's website: https://jeffreysmalldon.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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