# INTERVIEW: Ernie Hudson

An episode of [Black Men Can't Jump \[In Hollywood\]](https://invisiblenetwork.ai/podcast/1023264209), 27 Nov 2025, 58 min.

Audio: https://audio3.redcircle.com/episodes/e9f0fa17-ac9e-41ba-807a-5d4c83b22a50/stream.mp3

This week, James, Jerah, and Jon welcome the legendary Ernie Hudson (Ghostbusters, Boston Blue) for a special interview episode. Together, they discuss the ongoing legacy of his turn as Winston Zeddemore, the ups and downs of his decades-long career, that now-famous tee-shirt photo, where he’s seen progress in the industry on Black creatives, where he hasn’t, the surprising impact Roots had on the industry, and much, much more! Listen to The Floor Play here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-floor-play/id1842879987 Pick up copies of James and Connor Ratliff's Stitch comics here: https://www.dynamite.com/disney/viewProduct.html?PRO=C72513035647503011 SUBSCRIBE TO EXCLUSIVE CONTENT AND OUR BACK CATALOG OF 400+ EPISODES: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/7655b7ec-dc57-47c9-ab96-1a8fa02f6573/exclusive-content JOIN OUR PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/BMCJ FOLLOW BLACK MEN CAN'T JUMP \[IN HOLLYWOOD\]: https://www.threads.com/@blackmenpodcast https://www.instagram.com/blackmenpodcast BUY BLACK MEN CAN'T JUMP \[IN HOLLYWOOD\] MERCH: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/black-men-can-t-jump-in-hollywood Produced by Skyler Hanrath Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/black-men-cant-jump-in-hollywood/exclusive-content Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

## Transcript

[0:09] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Welcome to black man can't jump in Hollywood Hollywood's city.
[0:24] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yes, it's a day.
[0:25] \[SPEAKER_03\]: We have seen shit that will turn you white.
[0:28] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Till for today.
[0:31] \[SPEAKER_03\]: But today, that is the line I wanted to quote.
[0:35] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Okay, respect respect respect respect.
[0:38] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Wait, we're ready and we excited.
[0:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We have an incredible guest here today with us in the studio.
[0:46] \[SPEAKER_04\]: Oh, wait, wait, you just don't, you just don't.
[0:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And now it's so nice.
[0:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was hoping we'd learn to do this part.
[0:51] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Our guests, our guests, this is the honored guests.
[0:54] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And honored guests get the wonderful intro.
[0:57] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Don't worry, you're gonna love this.
[0:58] \[SPEAKER_05\]: You're gonna love it.
[0:59] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Trust me.
[1:00] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Okay.
[1:01] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Are you ready?
[1:02] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Legend right here, so.
[1:04] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Yeah, man, it's going to be a great opportunity.
[1:06] \[SPEAKER_02\]: I bet you love it, I bet you love it, I bet you love it, I bet you love it, I bet you love it, I bet you love it, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I
[1:16] \[SPEAKER_04\]: Come on.
[1:17] \[SPEAKER_04\]: Come on.
[1:18] \[SPEAKER_04\]: That's a drum roll.
[1:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That was his best drum roll.
[1:21] \[SPEAKER_01\]: All right.
[1:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is that is his best.
[1:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That was his best drum roll.
[1:25] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I've probably Thank you, entire show.
[1:27] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It was a good one.
[1:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know what?
[1:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I haven't seen many, but that was that was impressive.
[1:33] \[SPEAKER_05\]: See, honestly, thank you.
[1:36] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Scallor, make sure we clip that already also any time.
[1:38] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Pretty much runs ahead on me.
[1:40] \[SPEAKER_05\]: We don't play that.
[1:40] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Thank you.
[1:41] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Sure.
[1:41] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I was going to coast on this for a long time.
[1:46] \[SPEAKER_05\]: some little things.
[1:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's a little like welcome.
[1:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, thank you so much.
[1:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So we're a film review podcast.
[1:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: We typically review the films of leading black actors and talk about the mechanics of race and diversity and how to write.
[1:59] \[SPEAKER_01\]: But today we do have a guest here.
[2:03] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Legendary legendary guest Ernie Hudson.
[2:06] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Come on.
[2:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know who he might be, you might be, you know, currently watch them in the family business and boss and blue.
[2:17] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Of course, you know him from the Ghostbusters franchise, but also an incredible voice actor, you might not realize he's done this so many voice acting things as well, including Star Wars The Bad Batch.
[2:34] \[SPEAKER_01\]: puppy dog pals and I mean like even video games NBA 2K 20.
[2:39] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's incredible.
[2:40] \[SPEAKER_01\]: So Ernest you've been working in Hollywood for six different days through six different decades.
[2:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, yeah, I guess you had a husband.
[2:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, you know, the work, you know, it's
[3:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, putting one foot in front of the other, you know, projects never really come the way you want them to, but I've been blessed to, somebody keeps calling off me, you know, jobs with pay and so I keep showing up.
[3:19] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, go ahead, yeah, go ahead, I have to ask you this question.
[3:24] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Last year, a photo came out of you.
[3:27] \[SPEAKER_05\]: It was you in a very fitted black t-shirt.
[3:30] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And I have to ask, are you like a vampire?
[3:33] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Like, how do you keep in shape with the skin between the true and true?
[3:36] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I just, like, that makes no sense.
[3:37] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Like, I'm not a lot of you.
[3:39] \[SPEAKER_05\]: That was crazy.
[3:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, you know, it's kind of, it was funny because that photo came out, which I think
[3:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Nothing's changed.
[3:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, I, you know, it's not like I got in shape or, you know, whatever.
[3:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And suddenly, people noticed I had arms and, like, really, because, you know, for six years, it's been, but then somebody said, maybe that's the thing, nothing has changed.
[4:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes.
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yes.
[4:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[4:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But, and I don't really, I've never been a fan of my sentence very much and do, you know, martial arts and working out.
[4:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I've never really been into that, but I just
[4:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: that we know what we need to do.
[4:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Most of us don't want to do it.
[4:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We keep looking to somebody else to tell us some secret, but the reality is you know what you shouldn't be doing and you know what you know, what you need to do.
[4:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so you just don't push that envelope.
[4:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In my grandmother would say, just don't be stupid.
[4:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, don't do the stupid stuff.
[4:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And most people want to do the stupid stuff.
[4:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And when you young, you get a way with it, but then when you hit about 60, 70, it all comes back, you know, and you're not sure I have been, you know, been a little crazy from time to time, but nothing, nothing so extreme that I had to, you know, regret or anything.
[5:00] \[SPEAKER_05\]: All right, cool.
[5:01] \[SPEAKER_05\]: So you're saying not a vampire because look, you know, we saw when you saw that Ghostbusters film and everybody, the OGs come back at the end, you're moving fast.
[5:11] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Okay.
[5:11] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And I love everybody else, but you're moving fast.
[5:14] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And I think that's the biggest thing is everybody else is moving at a different, different pace.
[5:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, yeah, but you know, maybe that might have something to do with money.
[5:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I mean, I've never had the, um,
[5:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: the privilege of having so much money that I can do whatever I want to do.
[5:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Then I might have actually done stupid stuff.
[5:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't mean, you know, I don't do quite a lot of money.
[5:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So they might have been moving at a different pace a long time.
[5:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, we're on two different
[5:55] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess what I, and this is a little bit of a broad question, but I'm interested to know, you know, if I get a little deep real quick, but, you know, in the different decades that you work, do you feel like, I guess speaking as a black actor, do you feel like the industry has changed for the better after you've seen it, is it kind of like a roller coaster, their ups and downs, and different opportunities at different times?
[6:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, you know, back when I started in the 60s and the 70s, it was just blatant, you know what I mean, it's like, there's a different pay scale, you've got to know that understand, even though you might be the lead in this, the other guy who, you know, is going to make nobody, then you, you know, I mean, it's kind of, you know, we're only going to hire so many, most of the films that work on, especially early on, I'd be the only black character in the film, I didn't movie with Jay Leno.
[6:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it was called Collision Course, who was supposed to be shooting a downtown Detroit, and that was not another black person anywhere to be seen.
[6:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Like, you know, so it was just really blatant.
[7:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then when it seemed like when Ruth's came or something big, you know, project came where you got a lot of attention, you know, you get the backlash.
[7:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So then it was like nothing happened.
[7:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Nobody was working.
[7:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I was one of the few actors blessed to still manage to find work.
[7:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Usually as best friends, you know, I mean just, you know, you're doing a show where you are in the guy, you know, you're racing, but I got to deliberately slow down enough to let him win.
[7:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But we don't mean it's just stuff that you kind of go.
[7:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But that's, you know, now, just in terms of the number, I mean, I see so many, I never thought.
[7:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'd say they win so many black leads and so many just, you know, representation across the board, you know, female, maybe it's, yeah, we, we thought this would never happen.
[8:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and it's happened maybe in the past 20 years where commercials, you know, it's like, you know, we because when I came on the 50s, 60s, 70s, you really saw a blip and I just in terms of on TV, but even in a commercial.
[8:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right.
[8:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, it was like it was all really white and
[8:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But yeah, so there's been a change that way now behind the scene.
[8:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, those skilled jobs, you don't see, but you didn't see it as a lot of, you know, in the creative side, the directors, you know, producers, but still the technical stuff, the crews, or still, for example, you know, but, you know, but that's changing.
[8:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, this day definitely has been changes, you know, stories of being told about, you know,
[8:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: All for the opportunity to tell our story is always someone who and he never really ridden right I mean it would I would be asked to do stuff.
[8:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm like this is stupid.
[9:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Why would I do that?
[9:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, thank you.
[9:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, there's this is been a big change and
[9:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In ways like I said that you go back 40 years ago, you know, we always say they'll never let you do this.
[9:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right.
[9:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, you know, then I got to let you do that and I remember when it was started to change, I went into addition for Star Trek.
[9:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Deep space night I think it was and they said we're going to have a black cap that we were looking to you know, and I thought that's not going to happen.
[9:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, so.
[9:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I just.
[9:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[9:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then every Brooks, you know, maybe virtually.
[9:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[9:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, in the role.
[9:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But yeah.
[9:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that has been definitely changed.
[9:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And, you know, but we always worry about, you know, the backlash, you know, suddenly, you know, they get a conscious moment and then all of a sudden they just wanted to revert.
[10:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I'd like to think we've progressed far enough what we'll never have to go back with that.
[10:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But, you know, when you don't control the money, then there's always possible.
[10:15] \[SPEAKER_03\]: It's great to hear that perspective and over that time because I feel like for us.
[10:21] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And we've been doing this podcast for around 10 years now.
[10:24] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And it's about breaking in and when the state of POCs in the business, we can feel like really close to it and lose sight of what grounds have been made.
[10:38] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Going off of that, if I can take it back to Ghostbusters for a second,
[10:42] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You know, you mentioned being, you mentioned a lot of times you were the only Black person in a lot of the films that you did, you know, Winston, Winston has like major cultural significance now, you know, especially for somebody like me growing up, he meant a lot to me.
[10:59] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Did it, did he, when you were taking that role, does it feel like he's the one Black person, you know, or is this like any other role, you know, you're approaching it like any
[11:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, you know, to me, you know, your approach like any other role, it was, you know, clearly, it wasn't just because he was black, but, you know, I was sort of outside for a lot of reasons.
[11:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, the guys,
[11:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Bill Murray, Dan Iquart, Harold Remus, they had been working together in second city in Saturday night for years.
[11:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So they were like a little family and just coming in from the outside.
[11:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was a little bit of that.
[11:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, they were very welcoming, but the studio wasn't.
[11:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The studio was very protective of them and kind of wanted me to be there, but not be there.
[11:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, you know, you should like you always aware of, and it was really the guys who would say, wait, wait, wait, wait man, you know, what about Ernie's not, you know, he should say something here, because it was, yeah, it was, it was, and when the movie came out, I think the way they promoted the movie, it was like, yeah, you know, we want to, what we really want to feature the three guys, he's a ghost bus, but we, you know, when the original script, which I think,
[12:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They will say, wasn't the case, but any Murphy, I think, might have been considered for the role.
[12:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And Eddie was pretty big at that time.
[12:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So the character was written all through the came in on page six, and it was a great role.
[12:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I read that script and thought, man, this will be life changing.
[12:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But they cut this before we just before we started shooting, they cut the script down to where I came in like,
[12:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: maybe halfway through the movie.
[12:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, all that was, and then, yeah, it was, I was always aware of, you know, I want to be there, I want to show up, I want to do, but also, you know, this is not your film.
[13:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I mean, this is not, this is, we want you, but we, you know, it was a little bit of that.
[13:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I talked to I have a right man before he passed about it.
[13:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He said, well, no, you know, we never really, but I'm like, well, maybe it was a studio, you know, being there.
[13:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Because you don't deal with those things directly, nobody comes up to you and directly say that, but it's like, you know, it's unconsciousness of it.
[13:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, it's, it's really like, well, you know, it's just the way things are and I'm like,
[13:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: me here and and it would like to say was I think the last scene or one of the last scenes in the movie where after we you know the turd dogs turn into
[13:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you know, people in Cigurney and Brick Marinas, we pull them out, and I'm just sort of standing there.
[13:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was Danny Orville said, well, I mean, you know, we should, so I have that line.
[13:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I love this town, so I think I don't want to spawn, but, but it's, so there's a lot of those lines in that being there.
[14:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I think a lot of it was, you know, but.
[14:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, but he's here, so I mean, that's amazing.
[14:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: I'm not in New York City right now, but I genuinely think one of the reasons that I lived in New York is Winston's battle cry at the end of that movie.
[14:21] \[SPEAKER_03\]: And it just comes out of like, oh, well, what can you do here?
[14:25] \[SPEAKER_03\]: That's so wild.
[14:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, yeah, no, and I haven't been talking much.
[14:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The studio was surprised at Winston, but the fans instead of Winston was like one of the guys.
[14:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They didn't really expect his toy sold as much as any of the toys.
[14:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: In fact, it was one of the best selling toys, but they were like shock.
[14:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So they didn't plant that.
[14:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And a lot of black kids were also a lot of white kids.
[14:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: really identify with that character because he was kind of like in every man who wasn't a scientist, he wasn't, you know, so.
[15:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I think that caught the studio really just had trouble.
[15:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, it was just dealing with what do we do with Winston?
[15:13] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You know, that makes me think it's like sometimes these studios have this no imagination.
[15:19] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Obviously,
[15:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: the root of this stuff is the legacy of racism in this country, but you know, the no imagination stuff is like, well, you know, because a lot of times they're like, well, we're just all about money.
[15:31] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And that's all we care about, but they don't realize that there's an opportunity, you know?
[15:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right.
[15:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, it was just recently because we're always told that we can't have a black star because you can't sell them in Europe.
[15:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We won't sell them to post all that.
[15:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: change, you know, with Will Smith and Eddie Murphy and you know, but that was the excuse for years, you know, and so, yeah, and the whole physicality in terms of the action stuff, whatever, it, when I went from, when I first started out and being, you know, well built physically,
[16:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, they see you as sort of the, you know, the bounce or the bodyguard or something.
[16:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, you're not the professional.
[16:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then I went from that to being best friend.
[16:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, somebody's best friend, so he kind of there, but you're not there.
[16:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yep.
[16:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So how do we... And that's something this goes into the video.
[16:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Maybe everything can do with the race range.
[16:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Just happen to be the way the industry saw me personally.
[16:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And of course, my always trying to find how do I find the way to stand a game, you know, but a lot of things that maybe I could have bought over, you know, and just say, wait a minute, I'm not doing that.
[16:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I did a series called High Clip Manor years ago back in May, 70s and literally.
[17:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm a little turned around in terms of time, but I think maybe it was the 70s, and I went in to read for this character.
[17:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: His name was Bambo, and he was South African who
[17:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: wrote a canoe across the ocean.
[17:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was just, it was just full of nonsense.
[17:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And, but I needed a job.
[17:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was a single dad, you know.
[17:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[17:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I went in every time I would really kind of nail the reading.
[17:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They were kind of laughing and I just felt like they were laughing at me as full of the with me, but like I'm like, I'm blocking all that out.
[17:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I got to get a job.
[17:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The rents do, you know, because I was a single dad at my son.
[17:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then we started rehearsing, and then it just sort of, oh, there was a party.
[17:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I was, there was some friends got together to celebrate my getting a series, because it was pretty, pretty major back then, and everybody was, you know, and then Shirley Ralph was there, and she said, she's got screams.
[18:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh my God, I know you're not going to do this.
[18:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And then I just had to deal with it, so, but my, my, I'd go to hearing, my name was Bambul, and every time I was a dress, the, the lead actor, and I would say Wana.
[18:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: because you're from South Africa, whatever, so, but I'm like, man, you know, just, I'm going to do this in after about four days, I just, you know, I mean, I got two sons, I'm thinking, I can't, I can't, so I went to the producers and I just said, you know what, I really appreciate, you know, you guys consider me, but I can't do this, I'm sure there's somebody out there who would love, who will do this to the match, but it ain't me, so thanks.
[19:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I appreciate it, but I just left.
[19:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so they call me the next, and we may have might taken two days, but they call me and said, listen, we thought about what you said, and we want to fix this.
[19:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We want you for the role.
[19:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so the character went from bamboo to smite.
[19:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He was, and he was of, he was a voodoo priest from South Africa, but he studied, he has a PhD now, he has a PhD.
[19:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So we got rid of the, the gold teeth and, you know, and they, they cleaned it up to a point where, you know, you can, and I think I learned from that that
[19:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That you can, you know, you don't have to go ahead.
[19:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: This is, this is, you know, it takes some bravery, right?
[19:53] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Like it to be able to do that because like you're saying, you're like trying to provide, you know, as actors, we never know when the next role is going to get that ever.
[20:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And yeah, and you think sometimes you, you think, well, I can do this in a way that the guy has dignity, because I know the way they want me to do it.
[20:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right.
[20:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know what I mean?
[20:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like I can't go there and I see I see even now sometimes people they take it to a place or maybe you can be funny without having to do that.
[20:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So Winston it was important for me to be.
[20:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I can't, I just certain things, even though the train scene, I got a few people was upset with the train sequence because I think the texturizer in my hair, but I had the helmet on, and then the scene they had went off and they had stood up because it was kind of straightened.
[20:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: uh, early in movies or something and none of that was that play in my head, but then later on I saw the film and I saw some people saw it wasn't how I saw those, but yeah, yeah, but yeah, of course, you know, and the people will read things into stuff that you have no idea or think about when you're doing it.
[21:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I'm always aware, and I do credit some people who will just tell no and fight for things.
[21:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I tend to want to make things work.
[21:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If I can, there's been a number of situations.
[21:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, like, okay, how do we, you know, no, we don't need to say I can't say that.
[21:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We're not doing that.
[21:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And usually they're open, but sometimes I do that thing go too close to a comfort with an actor from the Meritile Amor Show, Ted Knight.
[21:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so they hired me, and a white guy, we were, it was a sitcom, and there was a hole in his wall.
[21:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so they were hiring prisoners, prisoners, some kind of program to help prisoners.
[21:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So they hired us, we come to the apartment, and then I see the hole in the wall, and I say,
[22:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: which I don't even know what I mean, I don't know, I don't know, you know, but he wanted he wanted a big, you know, only in my head.
[22:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, and I'm like, it's makes no sense.
[22:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What is this?
[22:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Mahalia Jackson, what is what I hold in his head, you know, and so the cast, Ted Knight, and in fact the whole cast, we all kind of got together.
[22:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you don't just, this stupid, you know,
[22:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know we can we just this what do we even need it and so the producers say well I hired you because when you did the audition you did a great holy mahalia and and you know so either that or just you know We'll get somebody else and he was that you know and so I said holy mahalia you know and yeah, but
[22:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, it's all very, very personal and in some things, you know, that has come up that you just go, I can't do that.
[23:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was one project where the character was involved in a robbery and then when they the guy caught and beat him up badly through him in a trash can and shot him up his ass.
[23:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, at being an actor, I think it's always having a navigate that stuff, yeah, it's, you know, and then it's, and they go, oh, I didn't really, I didn't see that.
[23:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I didn't notice that that would be an issue.
[23:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, yeah, it's, you know, right, so anyway, I'm not, went on too long about that, but yeah, that's kind of, you know, you don't see it as much now, you know, because, you know, let us, there's a lot of more of us.
[23:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you know, uh, behind the scenes and in front of the camera.
[23:58] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But surely back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, it was, you know, just.
[24:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[24:06] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Well, so sad about that is I recently was at like, uh, a, a, a, a, a, a monologue slam.
[24:12] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Sorry.
[24:13] \[SPEAKER_05\]: In New York and it was a bunch of, um, black and brown actors and they had a reception.
[24:19] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And after the reception, the conversation came about representation and has things changed.
[24:25] \[SPEAKER_05\]: In this conversation, it was like, has it gotten better since the 90s for, like, black before, and as people started talking, and like some of them definitely are working, we started to realize that we don't have a lot of black lead shows, we don't have a lot of
[24:41] \[SPEAKER_05\]: You know, uh, I've only business and if we have other shows, we don't have like a ton of black male leads on TV at the moment.
[24:48] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And we were like, oh, has has that restriction happened and it has, you know, black men in particular have we taken the brunt of something that it wasn't our fault.
[24:58] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Like when my buddy's posed a question, he was like, you know, it became this thing of we need a more diversity, we need a more diversity, but it seems like.
[25:07] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Black men to an extent was left out of the diversity push to happen after 2020, even though George Floyd was a black man who like kind of revolutionized, um, so here you talk about how it used to be I'm like man honestly to a certain extent.
[25:22] \[SPEAKER_05\]: It almost feels like we were dressed a little bit.
[25:25] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Like even though we have like the three or four big black directors or producers, when I look at the content on TV, it's almost like we ain't there.
[25:36] \[SPEAKER_05\]: It's always wonder since you are one of the longest and like working black actors, did you ever feel, I don't know, a pressure to represent all of blackness?
[25:47] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Like you know what I mean?
[25:48] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Because it wasn't a lot of, especially in genre,
[25:51] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Black dudes in there, but you, and then in Star Wars, we had Lando, you never seen it like we didn't have any black characters in these fields.
[26:00] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Did that whale on you at all or anything?
[26:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I think you're always aware because there's so few, and there are always people fans will tell you, you know, you represent, so you want to be aware and have an eye for a son.
[26:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,
[26:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, you're always aware that, yeah, it's kind of a responsibility that some people just go, I don't care, I'm just going to try to get this my job, I gotta do whatever.
[26:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But I think there's always a, you know, a conscious awareness of, you know, and also those pride mean, I've done a few films where I play the lead, but very, very few, you know, I mean, so if I look at, I do a show for family visits now, I'm clearly the lead on that,
[26:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's, I would say it's a black show, but it's, you know, it's a very urban diverse, you know, but, but, but on, you know, on quantum leap, you know, you're the guy, but you're not the guy, you know, you're the Boston, the work is, and I think maybe with some of the diversity, it was, you know, there wasn't just, you know,
[27:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Black people, it was a lot of rups where minorities were warning representation and has always been in the country going back a lot of the years, the emphasis on women who, you know, they
[27:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: born to burn up a lot of stuff so to make sure that they were featured so make sure that they were.
[27:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so it was assumed that we men had always had a preferred position, you know.
[27:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So I think we're kind of got pushed a little bit, you know, it's not.
[27:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But yeah, but it's still, you know, just a couple of guys who are, you know, consistently starring
[28:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[28:01] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, I wonder too, because so just on this point of like you being somebody that a lot of fans, a lot of younger Black actors like might have looked up to as somebody as like a goal, right?
[28:18] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You're like, okay, well, if Ernie can do this, if Ernie can do these movies, it had this career, maybe I can too.
[28:24] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was wondering if like, did you have any of that?
[28:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Growing up, was there a people that you were ahead of you that you were looking to that made you feel like that hope that you could achieve the things that you've achieved?
[28:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, you look at, I remember Greg Morris on,
[28:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Mission impossible, and their act is working, you know, who, you know, but it was, it just weren't that many of us.
[28:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you just kind of go, I grew up with the kind of religious background.
[29:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you trust God, you know, that there's a way out of no way.
[29:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I never really because, and I think something that just has to do with me and my personality maybe, but I never had that mentor, you know, I came out of met a lot of the actors who were,
[29:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you know, working black actors, but nobody, you know, took me under the wing or gave me some advice or maybe I'm just not that kind of guy, you know, so I feel that, you know, and I, you know, it would have been nice I was talking to Denzel once he was talking about when he met
[29:39] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But, you know, I met Cindy Portia and he was like, no, that happened.
[29:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, I've always thought I got to figure this out, you know, on my own, even just running stuff.
[29:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We tend to be, you know, these lone wolves out here doing our thing and it's very hard to, yeah, it's just very hard to form a community where we can, you know, work together.
[30:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I know a lot of the actors are working, but we've never had.
[30:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Actress group back in the 70s who were they would do things and really support each other and do some fun raises stuff, but we guys, you know, if there's
[30:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: If there's a group, I've never been made aware of it, I've been a part of it.
[30:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So that's a little bit up at, you know, we wanting to do it all ourselves, or building the competition, you know, because there's so few roles in this, you know, I want to be the leading guy, and I'm like, so why not fighting a, you know, if literally, but yeah, you're getting a bunch of each other, yeah, over, you know, until
[30:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: that's coming together, you know, but then I've never been, you know, I didn't play sports, I don't know, that, you know, that I'm at friends, but I don't, you know, I'm just me personally, I'm just saying it's, yeah, all right.
[31:03] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Listen, I was telling the buddy literally today we were talking about mentors and I was like, he said he had three and I went, where'd you find three?
[31:12] \[SPEAKER_04\]: That's right, he's like, hey, let me one.
[31:15] \[SPEAKER_04\]: And I was like, hey, he's like, ball one of your mentors real quick.
[31:19] \[SPEAKER_04\]: He legit said today, I got three and I'm like, where, how, was there a sign?
[31:24] \[SPEAKER_05\]: But I will say the one thing, I can't really speak the mentors and I gotta ask him how he got them, but I do think nowadays the one thing we do have is I think,
[31:32] \[SPEAKER_05\]: communities of black actors and performers are starting to form like we, we, you know, I could think of three off the top of my head like we have like, you know, soul, so Ray and it's like actors that they do like, you know, events and monologues you have like seen in her and they do like readings and they you have like fish and scripts and they like handle scripts and writers and it's like, oh, it's nice to see these communities coming is almost a double their sword to me because a lot of them are formed because
[31:58] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Again, we don't have a lot of black led programs, but it's really cool to see people reaching across to like make stuff like now, you know, I've seen like I had a friend who who made a series recently and it was all.
[32:14] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Yes, all black women and everyone volunteer.
[32:18] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Like it was an entire four-day shoot, all volunteers, and there was such a beautiful thing to see.
[32:24] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And it's one of those things that shows how black people, I don't know, I think we always persevere.
[32:29] \[SPEAKER_05\]: So to see like, hey, we don't have these opportunities yet, but that still doesn't mean we can't do something together.
[32:35] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And I think about that a lot when it comes to, you know, that's the best way to put it.
[32:41] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I think we still kind of have a little tokenism that happens in Hollywood, like, I think, you know, about Winston, I, you know, I started trying to rewatch some of the stranger things and I think about like Lucas's character on that show.
[32:53] \[SPEAKER_05\]: And it feels like we're still in it a little bit, but then I wonder is there.
[32:57] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I don't know man, is is there a positive to at least having one and I hate to sound like I'm just like grasping for like straws because it is only one, but in my mind is like at least we got the one.
[33:07] \[SPEAKER_05\]: It's better than that.
[33:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: At least we have the one on the show.
[33:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Although the one black character on the show.
[33:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[33:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[33:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[33:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, I mean, it's at least for any game, but hopefully that will change.
[33:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I met.
[33:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I can't even, I don't know the black actor on Stranger Things.
[33:27] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Oh, um, Taylor McLaughlin.
[33:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Okay.
[33:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[33:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, um, yeah.
[33:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And, uh, he saw me there done a ghost bus to episode.
[33:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: where, um, yeah, so the bit was, uh, they were saying, you, you want to be Winston.
[33:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He said, I don't know how come I got to be Winston.
[33:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't want to be Winston.
[33:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, which was kind of it was a funny thing, but when he saw me at his face kind of dried, dropped it, he was like, he sounds, I'm sorry.
[33:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm sorry.
[33:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I didn't mean it.
[33:54] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You know, whether it was, it was in the screen.
[34:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was in the screen.
[34:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I thought it was in the
[34:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Oh, no, but you, the community is important, you know, now when I Peter was family for me.
[34:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, you know, when I started out Detroit and you know, went to...
[34:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, the East Coast and, you know, it is much more of a community, you know, I mean, that was family, you know, that people have worked with the people we've done shows with, you know, you go through six weeks or rehearsal, you know, you do find these four of these ties.
[34:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But Hollywood is a little bit different.
[34:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Hollywood is not like theater.
[34:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I used to say, you know, theater is like, love, you know, falling in love.
[34:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Hollywood is like sex.
[34:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know what I mean?
[34:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You're lucky if you can get it.
[34:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That is, you know what I mean, but it's like, you know, it's on to somebody else's.
[34:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You feel a little cheap.
[34:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, maybe sometimes that part of my love.
[34:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But what sometimes, you don't think.
[35:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that's so real.
[35:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, so Hollywood is a little bit different.
[35:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, hopefully it's better now because it's a lot more of it's working.
[35:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, like I said, it was a period when it was, the first half of the roots came up.
[35:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Everything dried up.
[35:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Wow.
[35:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Really?
[35:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So the antibody working on Annie, it was, it was crazy.
[35:21] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I thought there would be a good thing because roots was such a big deal.
[35:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, we thought so too.
[35:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, we thought, music going to open up now.
[35:28] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[35:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: fascinating.
[35:32] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Oh, yeah.
[35:32] \[SPEAKER_03\]: But we talk about that, you know, you know, it, it still comes in waves and these, in the same kind of way, you know, the, there's, there's booms every now and again and when after the booms happen, it's like, no, it's like we did it, you know, yeah, to the degree.
[35:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And now I think we know we can do it.
[35:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I mean, we know we can make a movie.
[35:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We know, you know, there's there's ways of getting fun.
[35:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's, you know, there.
[35:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: We hadn't done it, or there was one of two examples of people doing it.
[36:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I remember working with a really, really, really more.
[36:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And he would say, I have to do saw my movies or whatever, but now it's not that unusual.
[36:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I mean, it's not like, either impossible.
[36:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Now with technology, you can.
[36:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: like you said people volunteer, we can, you know, we want to make, but we come together.
[36:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it's a lot better that way.
[36:20] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yeah.
[36:20] \[SPEAKER_03\]: That's beautiful.
[36:21] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Absolutely.
[36:22] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You mentioned that you that you've done theater and, and we were talking earlier about, you know, the
[36:29] \[SPEAKER_03\]: If it to switch gears a little bit, can you talk about like your approach to those different areas, you know, there's live performance, there's on camera work and then there's behind the camera, you know, is there a different approach with with each one, you know, well, definitely I mean theater is, you know, because it's.
[36:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, you know, you're in it, you know, I mean, you go on stage, you know, you can't say cut.
[36:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You can't, you know, even though you went up on your lines, you got to hear this out, you know, I mean, it's, and voice over stuff, it's all the voice, it's all, you know, trying, you know, you don't have anything else to work with, but the voice.
[37:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so you kind of more depend on the directors and the people there who have a better idea of what's going on that you do because they know what the animation doesn't look like.
[37:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They've got, you know, they have.
[37:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you really relying on them to kind of interpret things in a way so that you can then bring whatever to.
[37:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But when I started out because when I got into, when I discovered theater,
[37:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and decided to do this, I felt like I needed to prepare myself.
[37:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: as best I could, which where I spent so much time in school, but in trying to get on stage, because you do want to be in it for the long haul, and you want to be comfortable in any medium, if so, if it's whatever it is, you know, it's like, you know, you, you know, it's not like I only do action stuff, because that's how I don't know how to do this, so I don't only do, I always say the work that I do has been the work that's coming to me.
[38:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Some people,
[38:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm told choose to do I'm only going to do voice of the work.
[38:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't know what it's like because I just got to get a job.
[38:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, but I got to make sure that and you do approach it differently.
[38:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm not quite sure what the difference is, but there's a, any role I think there's an intuitive.
[38:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You kind of know, you know, when you read the script, you kind of get a, you know, this, it's, I don't know, it's just something that you know, this is a guy.
[38:40] \[SPEAKER_00\]: This is not the guy who, you know,
[38:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: who was, you know, the guy on Boston Blue is not the guy on family business, you know, not the guy who was in those places.
[38:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so yeah, but knowing what you need to bring to it and knowing how to do that, that's where the training comes.
[39:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know what I mean?
[39:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Because I think
[39:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: lock in and it's a little bit bigger than you, you know what I mean it's it's something going on especially connect with the other actors it's but you can't always get to that place you know and so you need to be trained enough.
[39:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: or had this when the craft comes in to where no matter how bad it is, it won't be so bad that, you know what I mean?
[39:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: There's a little bit that you don't drop the load, but sometimes you can lift it and you kind of go, you know, that's what we live to find that spot.
[39:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But, you know, and not let all the stuff around you, like I was saying when I was doing Ghostbusters or whatever, in a field with
[39:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: this moment here.
[39:56] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I got to create this more than a matter of what they're trying to do in a matter of how much they didn't pay me no matter what you said.
[40:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So yeah, so they approach as different, but I can't really, I'm not sure how it's different except in this moment, I need to show up this way and do this.
[40:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it's not the way I showed up over there, but this is, each time it's uniquely different, I guess.
[40:22] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was just gonna, I'm gonna ask a little bit more of a basic question, I guess, but I'm still interested.
[40:28] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was wondering, you know, in all the different roles that you've done, just both on screen and in theater, was there like a role or two that really stuck with you, that you really love like getting into that character and portraying it?
[40:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, you know, I, when I first, you know, got involved in theater and I did a lot of plays
[40:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, it didn't make a lot of money.
[40:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I've always made a living as an actor.
[40:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Somebody, but I was hustling.
[40:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I do a play over here to entertain much money, but you do, you know, you kind of.
[40:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I've been doing it for about 10 years.
[41:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: My marriage was sort of, with that sort of my marriage was actually coming to an end, even though I was in quite the middle of accepting that.
[41:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I got this role called, in the great white hole, playing character based on Jack Johnson.
[41:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it was a really demanding part.
[41:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But because my life was in such chaos, I just poured everything that was me into this character.
[41:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And it was a character big enough and a play big enough that it could take that.
[41:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So every performance, every night I went out,
[41:46] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was like this.
[41:47] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, it was just, it was, it was all of me.
[41:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It was the best that I had.
[41:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And that, that, that, that, that role changed my life.
[41:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And when I, when I was on stage, I was, you know, and I loved being back guys.
[41:59] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So when the play was over, my head was shaved back in the time when people didn't shave their heads.
[42:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I was sort of being bigger than life.
[42:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He's definitely championed the world.
[42:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So it was kind of hard going back to being an early Hudson.
[42:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: He's got it.
[42:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But, uh, and I haven't found that in film.
[42:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I haven't found the role yet that demands.
[42:21] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Most of the stuff people don't want me to bring.
[42:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: everything to it because, you know, I'm not the guy who's going to dominate you.
[42:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, so you're going to come in and bring this information and then get out of your way.
[42:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, you know, our guy can go on and be the, you know, I was doing a movie called Leviathan.
[42:43] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Then we had a scene where the monsters coming at us and we trying to block the door,
[42:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and then everything sort of stopped, you know, and I'm like, what's going on, and then it was, you know, four hours later, the director says, you know, can you put your shirt back on, cause, you know, we gotta be looking at his chest because people are gonna do a chest.
[43:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[43:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's not what you look for as an actor, you're looking for a, I want to, I want to be, I want to, I want to create this world, you know, this and most of the time is like, man, it's not about we just, yeah, just, you know, just do your stuff.
[43:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know, I've always felt like, you know, the world of filmmaking, especially movies, like it is such a director's medium and the world of
[43:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: acting in theater and play a theater in place.
[43:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: It's more of the actors medium, you know, and not that the directors don't have a huge part of it, but just like they really get to shine that to the audience is living with right then and there.
[44:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And it makes sense.
[44:00] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, I feel like and I wonder if you do too, like having that.
[44:07] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I know, you know, you're getting paid for the theater jobs, but those jobs don't pay as much, but are they fulfilling you more artistically, you know, creatively so that you can keep going and do the, you know, yeah, well, a lot of people say that and I think the first 20 years I was out in LA, I would always every year I would do a play at least, you know, and then at some point that
[44:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Right, and California's a little uneven because, you know, you work with someone and then they'll get a commercial and then they leave the show and in the meantime, you know, it's not like New York, well, you really dedicated to, um, but yeah, it's, yeah, it is, I maybe in some ways more fulfilling because you learn a lot, but then it doesn't pay, you know, you know, I did play on Broadway,
[45:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: about 10, I mean, it was when Obama first got in office, we did August Wilson play.
[45:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And so now I'm on Broadway and the play is a big hit.
[45:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and I'm thinking, you know, where is this stuff, you know, because in Hollywood, if you're on a movie and the movie pops at number one, it's like everything is happening, man.
[45:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They offer me stuff.
[45:30] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, you know, by loud, they got to go gifting sweets, they're giving me free stuff.
[45:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, because we're in the number one movie.
[45:38] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And in New York it's like, not just, you know, do your thing and go home and think, you know, it's like, you know, and, you know, and it was you're standing a vision.
[45:48] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, I think that's enough.
[45:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: What do you want?
[45:50] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, so it wasn't.
[45:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It, it, there's a price to pay for it.
[45:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But then I think there's some bros that when Jamie Fox did, Ray, it seemed like that was a role that,
[46:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, you got to show up, you know, it's like it would take everything to be that, and I haven't found the role in film that I felt demanded all of me.
[46:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, some of those are not so enjoyed, and then, but one of those where you have to, you want to work.
[46:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, I get all the things now, if you say, well, we really, we really like to work, we want you to move, we only need you for two days and like, well, what am I doing it, I don't, you know, I'm not just looking for a job, I'm looking for, you know, and And all right, get the more people begin to see you as, you know, different so
[46:44] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yeah, they think the plus is telling you you're going to be there for two days.
[46:49] \[SPEAKER_03\]: They think that's like a, yeah, oh, great, you know, right.
[46:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, that, yeah, I'm saying, oh my god, I can do two days.
[46:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, so, but that's not, and it may come a time when I'll go, you know, I'm going to make this money and do a day and go home.
[47:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But that's not where I, you know, right now.
[47:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And until Morgan Freeman decides to down.
[47:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, my God, Morgan, but it's all fun, but yeah, I think theater can be.
[47:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But then I can do a little two-day bit party in the movie or TV show, make the money go home, and that's fine.
[47:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I can't do a bit party in the play.
[47:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know me, I'm one of the worst in a, I'm coming out of here and it's not significant.
[47:41] \[SPEAKER_00\]: No, it's, it's got to be something in the world, making it sacrifice for.
[47:45] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That's a percent, yeah.
[47:47] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I have to ask you, you know, over the years, how have you mentally kept yourself safe?
[47:52] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I feel like when I speak for myself, the last three years have been stressful as hell when it comes to like performing and like,
[48:00] \[SPEAKER_05\]: You know, not only getting older, but also again, seeing how by people are kind of being treated, but there's these moments of, I remember hearing John Carl ex-Pesito talk about how stressed he was at one point in his life and how dark things got for him.
[48:16] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Are there things that you, you go to that, you know, helping you keep your head on straight, help you stay like positive and above board or, you know, just because there's so much happening.
[48:27] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I just feel like a lot of people don't know what to do and just don't let the, the, yeah, darkness over come of me, you know?
[48:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, no, it's, yeah, sometimes it's, you know, but honestly, you know, when I got into,
[48:44] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And, first of all, it was a stage and then I really wanted to be in a movie and I found I got a chance to be in a movie and a chance to be on TV show.
[48:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I just always felt like, you know, I'm just happy to be still feel like I'm starting out.
[49:00] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's still feel like I got to go out.
[49:01] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I really want to get this thing.
[49:02] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I still, the enthusiasm for which is why I haven't gone into directing or doing some other things because I still haven't still trying to get this thing right yet.
[49:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It has everything to do with me in terms of work, but it may be personally, it's not, you know, I mean, so my wife and I have been together almost 50 years and, you know, she's consistent, I mean, I trust her, my kids, my family, the work, it really, there's life and then there's the work and it's kind of not, you know, and the work doesn't, I think a lot of times people
[49:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: want the work to transform them or make them something or bring something to them that they didn't have.
[49:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I've always felt that pretty much have, you know, or I mean, I, you know,
[49:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: everything I need, even when I start out, you know, I got to, I got to take them right and I got to do this stuff with me personally.
[50:03] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm good, you know, and I don't need anyone to, in fact, when people kind of do a lot of the flattering, you know, all the other thing with the t-shirt, I'm like, I don't get it, but that's nice.
[50:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know what I mean?
[50:16] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like, so just, it's a job, and it's a great job if you can get it.
[50:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't make me someone else someone better than you know me And I don't but I know a lot of people really want
[50:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: you know, to make it so that they can go their home town and show people that I'm not the jerk you thought I was, you know, somebody's out, you know?
[50:46] \[SPEAKER_02\]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[50:48] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Well, I could tell you right now, the t-shirt happened because people were shocked.
[50:52] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Okay, that's like 30 years.
[50:54] \[SPEAKER_05\]: They're like, this man has not aged.
[50:55] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Okay, that was, that was the thing, or any.
[50:57] \[SPEAKER_05\]: The t-shirt, you looked the exact same from the t-shirt on the bus.
[51:01] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Okay, apparently happening because you took your shirt off at other times and they said,
[51:07] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You were like, but that was all they had to do.
[51:10] \[SPEAKER_03\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:14] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:18] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:22] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:23] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:27] \[SPEAKER_00\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:28] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:29] \[SPEAKER_02\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:30] \[SPEAKER_05\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:31] \[SPEAKER_05\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:31] \[SPEAKER_05\]: That was all they had to do.
[51:35] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I mean, this has been incredible that I thank you so much again for coming on and kind of sharing some of your story.
[51:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I guess, I mean, the last thing I'll ask you guys have any other questions was, yeah, like, what do you have, you know, if any, and also if you don't know where is, but if you have advice or any words of wisdom for like,
[52:02] \[SPEAKER_01\]: young black actors who are kind of first, who are like navigating this industry or coming into it or hoping to do what you've done.
[52:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, when I was a kid, I was, you know, my grandmother, I didn't have a dad.
[52:13] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I didn't grow up with a father, so I didn't have a dad.
[52:17] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And my mom died when I was a baby.
[52:20] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So my grandmother raised me, but it was always that space where I didn't want to enter.
[52:25] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Her explanation was, you know, God is your father, but God is personal.
[52:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's not like just where you go to church and you do this thing.
[52:31] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You know, but it's, it's aware of you and it's always guiding.
[52:35] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and that you can ask for anything, that thing about asking it's given, you can ask for anything, and the answer doesn't come from anyone in particular, it might come from somebody you never met, or something, you know what I mean?
[52:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Somehow it will manifest if you can hold onto that.
[52:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: bad belief.
[52:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So learning how to quiet yourself and trusting that intuitive thing that, you know, to just to sometimes just that we, we, sometimes we get so loud with all the stuff going on, we don't break the time to just tune in, you know, usually with me, it takes time about three in the morning, you know, just something you know, to make that phone call or just, you know, um,
[53:19] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And I always felt that no one will ever, the thing you value most at integrity, that party you, that is, that is sacred, nobody can ever offer you anything more than that's worth.
[53:32] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So you can't give that up, you know what I mean?
[53:34] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Because once you make the compromise, once you go to that place, even if it's for a good or whatever it's for, you can't get it back, you know what I mean, it's, it's so you just
[53:49] \[SPEAKER_00\]: and know that I might miss this opportunity, but something else is going to come along, something to the universe.
[53:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But when I try to figure it out, if I had to look back and say, well, I figured this out on my hide, but then I haven't had a mentor either, but I know that we're guided, you know, we're guided.
[54:06] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And
[54:08] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But a lot of people don't really trust it.
[54:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: And when you don't believe that, I guess, then you really have to depend on meeting somebody or becoming friends with somebody or, and I will say most of the, it's not all of the, the so-called breaks that has happened in my life has never come from anybody who I expected has come from.
[54:29] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Never come from anybody who old me something, who shouldn't get me something.
[54:33] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah, no, no, it's somehow,
[54:37] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The universe does its thing, and then of course the thing is just to be prepared.
[54:42] \[SPEAKER_00\]: As soon as we're still busy worried about trying to make it happen, that we ain't taking a time to really make sure that I'm ready, so when that opportunity comes down for paired, I'm doing the work, even though I have no guarantee that anything's going to come out of it by I know that this is, this is the ask, and I know there's an answer.
[55:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I wanted a role with something and it didn't work out, you know, and I've literally had a couple down, there's just been brought to tears, you know, where there's this like, but it was always something else there.
[55:24] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So just I guess the long, the short answer is just learn to trust yourself that you, if you have the desire to do it, that's a, that's a holy calling.
[55:36] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But it's calling in too bad and it will guide you, but you've got to, you've got to trust that.
[55:44] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[55:45] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's awesome.
[55:46] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I love that.
[55:47] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Well, everyone, listen to you so much, man.
[55:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, thank you.
[55:51] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Well, thank you guys.
[55:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: They really enjoyed it.
[55:53] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Hopefully, I run on sometimes, but I really appreciate you guys.
[55:57] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm just inspired to see, because I don't get a chance to, you know, the only you get.
[56:04] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It is an age thing.
[56:05] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's like, you know, you look at these decades.
[56:07] \[SPEAKER_00\]: It's different than it was.
[56:09] \[SPEAKER_00\]: You don't want to go anywhere, man.
[56:10] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I don't talk to nobody.
[56:11] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I'm like, I'm at home.
[56:12] \[SPEAKER_00\]: I mean, I go to, you know, I do what I got to do.
[56:15] \[SPEAKER_00\]: But so it's great to just see you guys and know that, you know, it's, you guys are moving it forward and, you know, doing great things and and I'm inspired by you.
[56:26] \[SPEAKER_00\]: So, you know, thanks for bringing the time to hang out with.
[56:31] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Yeah, that's correct.
[56:32] \[SPEAKER_03\]: You could be inspired with us and continue to inspire us.
[56:35] \[SPEAKER_03\]: So that's amazing to hear.
[56:36] \[SPEAKER_03\]: Thank you.
[56:37] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Oh, man.
[56:38] \[SPEAKER_01\]: You can catch early in the family business.
[56:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: The sixth season is currently airing on BET plus, as well as you can catch them.
[56:48] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I have Reverend Edwin on Boston Blue.
[56:52] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[56:52] \[SPEAKER_00\]: The new spin off.
[56:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[56:54] \[SPEAKER_00\]: Yeah.
[56:55] \[SPEAKER_00\]: New spin off.
[56:57] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I've been arrested on blue bloods.
[56:58] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I've been arrested on audit all the time.
[57:01] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Come on, come on, come on.
[57:02] \[SPEAKER_05\]: My first job is getting arrested on blue bloods.
[57:05] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And I was arrested on New York.
[57:08] \[SPEAKER_01\]: I was arrested on NCI, yes, you know.
[57:10] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Damn it.
[57:11] \[SPEAKER_05\]: You got to get arrested.
[57:12] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I've been getting arrested on the show.
[57:13] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I needed no, it was real.
[57:15] \[SPEAKER_05\]: She's great.
[57:16] \[SPEAKER_05\]: No, by the way.
[57:20] \[SPEAKER_01\]: That's how we break it and that's also you get arrested all right.
[57:26] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah.
[57:26] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Yeah, I get that Result to watch a cast still.
[57:30] \[SPEAKER_05\]: I'll still wait for it too.
[57:32] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Also really excited You're you're going to be a voice in the new Toy Story movie coming out next year.
[57:41] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, that's a that's so awesome Yeah
[57:46] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Yeah, that's good.
[57:47] \[SPEAKER_05\]: That's a nice story.
[57:47] \[SPEAKER_05\]: Fat, low-diversity.
[57:49] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Yeah, thank you, guys.
[57:50] \[SPEAKER_01\]: Thank you so much again.
[57:51] \[SPEAKER_01\]: And yeah, we'll see you all next week, peace.

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